Friday, August 16, 2019

Why I no Longer Reject Vatican II and the Traditional Catholic Priests or Receiving Sacraments from Them (On Baptism of Desire, Baptism of Blood, Natural Family Planning, Una Cum etc.)

As for over the last two years, I have changed many of my old positions and do no longer adhere to the strict interpretation as expressed in many of our old articles. Now I follow the Doctors, Saints and Theologians of the Church, my conscience, and the teaching of St. Alphonsus, which teaches us that it is the law of conscience that determines whether an uncertain action is lawful or not. Therefore, if you feel good in your conscience about approaching this or that priest for Mass or the Sacraments (even a Vatican II priest) then you can do so. Therefore, if a position is uncertain or unclear to you (such as Baptism of Desire or Blood), do what you think is right according to your conscience. No one can force you to embrace an uncertain position under pain of sin, and therefore, do not worry about approaching a priest you feel good about approaching, if you feel you need to receive the consolations of Mass and the Sacraments from this priest.

Please read this article, which more fully explains the situation to another questioner:


Even though I said in this article (above) that the Vatican II priests are not validly ordained and hence not real priests, I in fact am not sure that this is the case anymore. Therefore, you may have a different opinion, or you may share this position. Many in the traditional camp have varied positions on this topic, and no one can force the other to accept his or her position under pain of sin. Therefore, follow your conscience and do what you think is right.

So the the question as to where you should go to mass I answer: Go to any mass or priest that you feel good about approaching according to your conscience. If you feel it is right to go to this or that mass and receive the sacraments from this or that priest, then do so. Your conscience is clean, and that is all that matters.

I also do no longer adhere to the position that Vatican II or the Protestants, Muslims, Buddhists or various Traditionalists Groups and Peoples etc. are heretical or damned, or that the various teachings, Saints and adherents to Vatican II (and other canonized by Vatican II) such as Saint Mother Theresa or Saint Pope John Paul II was heretical or damned or not Catholic (or not the Pope) – or that they are unworthy of this title. Why have I changed position? That is simply because the law of conscience is true, and because damnation is something evil, and because Vatican II is more open to the law of conscience and universal salvation, whereas the pre-Vatican II Church was not.

For more information on this topic and why I have changed position, and why damnation is evil and why the Vatican II Church teaches something good with being more open to universal salvation and the law of conscience, see these posts (please see both of them, they are really important):

https://against-all-heresies-and-errors.blogspot.com/2019/05/q-why-damnation-and-eternal-torments-is-evil.html

Simply said, salvation for everyone is something infinitely desirable and endlessly good, whereas eternal damnation in torments and fire is the most evil thing that could ever be imagined, and it is stupid to believe (and just silently accept) that our fellow human beings must be damned simply because they held a different faith, or simply because God wills it, or only because they failed in their life. That is why I admire Vatican II now, since they have distanced themselves from repressing and evil teachings like an eternal Hell with torments and fire for our fellow human brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, children and neighbours! and now, they (the Church), instead of focusing on unforgiveness and damnation, the Catholic Church (which is the Church of God) focuses on forgiveness, hope and salvation for everyone – which is an eternal true and endlessly good doctrine, since it follows true justice and our conscience which wills eternal good towards everyone (even ones enemies, that they may become good so that we may be able to love each other and become best friends), and not only towards ones own.

Concerning our "Various Traditional Catholic Issues and Groups Exposed" topic. This was the expression of my old beliefs, but is also the still current beliefs of my other old co-worker (or co-owner of the websites) that I have come to distance myself from. Even though the owner of the "prophecyfilm12" mail address still espouses those same views (the strict and old) I do not, and I would tell you that they (the Traditional and Vatican II Catholic groups and people we formerly condemned) are Catholics (i.e., those who believe in Baptism of Desire and Blood, NFP, Una Cum and Pope Francis etc.) and that they can be approached for the Sacraments and Mass if you feel good about doing so and you believe this is the right and Catholic choice.

One will simply not become a heretic for embracing (even obstinately) Baptism of Desire or Blood when Saints and even Popes and the Church tacitly approves of it and even formally approves of it in its teachings (such as in Code of Canon Laws and Catechisms and Theological Manuals and Books). So the Church teaches Baptism of Desire and Blood (but not perhaps dogmatically in the sense MHFM and others would like to have it), but we are heretics for believing in it? No, that is not true. If Pope Pius XII could believe in and teach Baptism of Desire and even NFP (which he did) then so can we. And it does not matter if we "know better" or have "been corrected" by others, such as by groups as ourselves or Most Holy Family Monastery, – for we are entitled to our own opinion on this matter if we desire to adhere to the teachings of the Saints and Pope Pius XII who all taught Baptism of Desire. Only when the Church has formally condemned Baptism of Desire and Blood or NFP (and such like controversial topics) and not given any more room for doubt, would it be unlawful to embrace those positions (unless, of course, you have a valid reason to doubt or deny those teachings, such as the teaching on Hell, which is an evil teaching and an evil thing). But has this happened? Has Popes really condemned Baptism of Desire or Natural Family Planning in name so that there are no arguments among Catholics about what is the truth? No, they have not! Why else all the arguments and differences in opinions? Popes such as Pius XII even spoke of BOD and NFP or Rhythm as Doctrine. So what does it tell us? That the Pope did not view the quotes as we (as in my old views) or MHFM does. It is easy to take a dogma or encyclical and just interpret it 100% strict and even dismiss all Saints and Theologians of the Church, but it is not wise to do so. When all the Theologians and Doctors of the Church teach Baptism of Desire and Blood, then we need to listen. If none of them interprets the dogmas as we or MHFM does, then we are free to accept their explanations and reject that of others. And it does not matter how "convincing" MHFM or anyone else is or however much they condemn you, – if you are uncertain (and you have a right to be and to remain uncertain, for the Church does not teach that you must accept the explanations of random people or be guilty of mortal sin) and if your conscience feel good about adhering to Baptism of Blood or Desire (both of which are doctrines which the Church approved theologians teaches), then you are free to adhere to their explanations. I suppose even you see the logic and reason in this position, i.e, that you are free to embrace the approved theologians' position on any topic that your conscience agrees with, and reject the position (or feel uncertain about without incurring sin) the position of non-approved sources, until the Church has formally and undeniably settled this matter.

If Thomas Aquinas (approved Saint and Doctor of the Church) could be saved believing in Baptism of Desire, then so can you, even if we or MHFM condemns you, since you are entitled to be unsure when the Church seems to contradict Herself by both teaching and condemning it, – if you now believe the doctrine could be condemned. Otherwise, the true explanation is that Baptism of Desire is not condemned, and that MHFM and others are over-interpreting the encyclicals and councils.

In conclusion: On topics that are uncertain and unsettled or sensitive (such as Mass or the Sacraments) follow your conscience and ask the advice of others, such as priests and friends, and do not only strictly follow the strict interpretations of online theologians (or the so-called "the only ones you can trust") that often over-interprets things and "only follow their own ways" to the rejection of everyone else, even if they are Popes, Priests, Monks, Approved Theologians, Catechisms or even Code of Canon Laws.

You have a right to be uncertain and to adhere to something that you believe is true (such as the approved sources). Therefore, do not worry about going to a specific Priest or Mass if you desire to do this, or to adhere to this or that teaching if you feel more comfortable in embracing it according to your beliefs and conscience. For if your conscience is clean on this topic, then you are acting right and even do a good thing, since you follow justice and honesty.

34 comments:

  1. Jerome,
    If there is no Hell, conscience doesn't matter. Baptism of desire is moot. Everyone is saved, so we don't need baptism by water or baptism by desire/blood. You don't even need to believe in Christ. You don't need to live a good life.

    The problem with those who reject Hell is that they believe themselves to be more merciful than God. It's pure emotion devoid of reason. "I wouldn't want someone to torture me [or my wife, mother, father, etc] forever, so I could do things better than God. Hell does not exist."

    See my post on the subject of Hell I wrote about 2 weeks ago:

    http://introiboadaltaredei2.blogspot.com/2019/08/hell-under-fire.html

    Everything you wrote in this post is a waste. Why go to Church at all! When St. Paul tells us to "work out thy salvation in fear and trembling" he was out of his mind!

    ---Introibo

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    1. I have written an article in response to your evil comment. It can be found here:

      https://against-all-heresies-and-errors.blogspot.com/2020/04/q-is-the-salvation-of-all-human-beings-souls-and-angels-an-illogical-position.html

      Introduction: Keep in mind that this person, Introibo Ad Altare Dei, who wrote to me and condemned and ridiculed my views and called them illogical is a lawyer by decree. A true and just lawyer is of course meant to fight for justice and defend people against discriminating and wrongful behavior not only in a court of law, but also outside of it.

      Thus, Introibo knows very well all the laws that he has sworn to uphold in order to defend the innocent and also all the reasons and the logic and justice behind them since they defend people from evil and unjust/excessive punishments and crimes and dictatorial behavior, yet when it comes to defending others from an eternal unjust Hell, whether they be humans, aliens or angels (which is a just lawyers duty) from the injustice of an eternal Hell where they will always live in eternal torments (which is similar or far worse then Hitler's inhuman and unjust concentration camp) he does nothing.

      And even though he would readily have condemned Hitler's evil concentration camps, when it comes to God's Hell which is infinitely worse and more unjust and which could never justly be compared with anything on earth, he condemns nothing, but even defends it! But to do this is nothing different in reality from defending Hitler or his concentration camps, and God is not above true justice and his more evil concentration camp of Hell is not just or excusable just because he created us, just as Hitler was not good or excusable for the evil he did just because he was the lawful ruler. That is common sense, logic and justice, which Introibo sadly does not follow in this case.

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  2. I think everything typed was very logical.

    But, consider this, suppose you were to write a
    awesome headline? I am not saying your content is not good., however suppose you added something that makes people desire more?
    I mean "Why I no Longer Reject Vatican II and the Traditional Catholic Priests or Receiving Sacraments from Them (On Baptism of Desire, Baptism of Blood, Natural Family Planning, Una Cum etc.)" is
    kinda plain. You could look at Yahoo's front page and watch how they write post headlines to grab
    people interested. You might add a related video or a related pic
    or two to get people interested about everything've written. Just my opinion,
    it could bring your website a little livelier.

    ReplyDelete
  3. https://www.bartleby.com/210/
    https://www.dhspriory.org/thomas/http://gardenofmary.com/library/sermons/sermons-of-st-alphonsus/

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    Replies
    1. Correct ordering of links:

      https://www.bartleby.com/210/ [The Lives of the Fathers, Martyrs, and Other Principal Saints - Compiled from Original Monuments and Authentic Records - In Twelve Volumes.]

      https://www.dhspriory.org/thomas/ [Due to copyright concerns, this website is no longer hosting English translations of the works of St. Thomas Aquinas.]

      https://aquinas-in-english.neocities.org/ [Alternative site to above.]

      http://gardenofmary.com/library/sermons/sermons-of-st-alphonsus/ [Sermons of St. Alphonsus Liguori.]

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  4. Saint Bridget of Sweden
    by Johannes Jorgensen (Danish)
    English translation: Ingeborg Lund
    Volumes 1-2. C. 1943.

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  5. Satan has done a lot of work here of late, I can tell. And it's a shame.

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    1. The only thing that is shameful and stupid is to see Christians say that favouring the salvation of every man, woman and child, including all the evil or satanic.

      What is evil or satanic with fighting for everyone's eternal salvation and happiness? There is nothing evil with it, rather, it is you who are evil in promoting eternal damnation, torment, unlove, unhope and unhappiness, you fool!

      If it is to do Satan's work to rebell against an evil God and to save everything so that no one will be eternally damned or unhappy, then yes, Satan has had his part in this work for sure and for that I am eternally grateful and happy ;)

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  6. You have become a coward and everything you were devoted to expose and fight. You are a fraud.

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    1. PART 1

      If I am a coward I will strive to better my self. However, when it comes to thinking of something better than what God has done, I cannot be accused of being a coward, since I am a heretic according to his own law, which means I would be damned and that is also the reason why you yourself have judged me as condemned and as I will burn in Hell unless I "repent and convert", and as a matter of fact, this would also happen to me if God now is a Dictator and damns people for eternity!

      However, since the law of conscience and true justice of honest laws are true even if a God wants otherwise through being unjust, I am not in actuality damned, even if it might look like that on paper, because God cannot actually damn me for being more just than him, as should be obvious, since God also claims to be just and honest, and hence, he must be the one who comply with us and not the other way around. Hence, in the end, there will be no damnation, and everyone will be saved, just as Origen (c. 184 – c. 253) taught centuries ago!

      However, I can understand that most people will be afraid to fight against God for the salvation of the damned sinners, since they themselves fear being damned and labelled heretics (I mean, who wants to be eternally damned and live in eternal torments and misery?). Hence, their fear and unwillingness to stand up to a justice above God's injustice and evil Hell is understandable, although not excusing according to true conscience or justice since following true justice and conscience should not be neglected just because you fear of being persecuted by it or even damned even if the persecutor is God himself.

      Truly, blessed be those persecuted for justice sake, for great will be their reward in Heaven! (Matthew 5:12)

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    2. PART 2

      Also, if no one truly fights for justice and everyone is afraid, how will ever an injustice be overthrown, and true justice prevail and take its place? That is why justice is such an important virtue that must never be neglected, because if no one is truly just, no true justice, honesty or love will exist for everyone (that is why men on earth desires to be just, so that our society may become a better and more peaceful place, so that we all can become more lovable and understanding with each other's differences). And if God's evil Hell does not prove this fact by it self that an injustice leads to evil -- i.e., of what happens when one lets someone become or remain unjust without hindering it -- then I don't know what does! I mean, what if evil Dictators like Stalin or Hitler was not rebelled, prevented, or fought against or killed? Who knows what kind of worse world we would have lived in now if Communism and Nazism had succeeded, and not been defeated. You see, that is the evil fruit of not being just and by being a true coward not daring to fight against injustices!

      St. Maximin Kolbe did not cower away fighting against the Nazis even though he was killed in the end for doing so (he even offered to die in the place of a persecuted Jew in the Concentration Camp he was sent to and the soldiers accepted his kind offer!). Hence, if anyone every desires to prevent us from being just or doing justice or if they try to forbade us from doing so, let us rebell and not do as they wish, because an honest and just and lovable man like Kolbe and others will be fighting for true justice and love even if evil people in authority condemns us for it! That is just how it works with honesty and a good conscience, i.e., that it forces us to be just even if we are condemned for it when this is what we truly believe in and are not cowards looking after own own interests to the neglect of our brothers and sisters and children!, and the same justice and fighting spirit applies with God himself if God now is not completely just on any point and he needs to be rebelled against, just like with any other dictator like Hitler or Stalin. And the point in which God is clearly and obviously unjust about is eternal Hell and damnation, since no one in actuality desires this to happen to our fellow brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, the elderly or our children, and also angels, animals and all other spirits, but rather, everyone desires their ultimate happiness, love, hope for the better, conversion from evil and salvation!, and not damnation or eternal unforgiveness and torments!

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    3. PART 3

      Now the only logical solution to this evil doctrine of eternal damnation -- since the salvation of every creature is without measure in importance and more important than God's own will if he desires them evil, and also because love, hope and forgiveness is a truth and justice above even God himself if he denies this truth with the untruth of unlove, unhope, unforgiveness and eternal damnation! -- is to rebell against God on this point and bring forward, with unrelenting force!, a truer justice above his own Dictatorial behavior or "justice", and instead make him comply with us -- even trough force if he refuses --, since we are right and he is not! And that is exactly what I am trying to do and what I have done.

      Even God's Church on Earth, the Vatican II, has started to embrace this position and approach, which is why they have distanced themselves from the doctrines of eternal unforgiveness, unhope, unlove, separation and damnation in insufferable torments and fire with demons torturing and eating us alive[†] FOR ALL ETERNITY!, because they understand in their hearts and consciences that such positions are evil and untrue and against love and forgiveness!, so they the just people and God's Church the Vatican II now embrace a more open approach of Universal Salvation for everyone, even the damned themselves which, according to many in the Vatican II, is an acceptable and true doctrine that even they will be saved. And the more the world and the future progresses, the more this doctrine of forgiveness and salvation will be evolved and expanded upon, and I believe the doctrine of Hell will even become a declared heresy in the future!, since this doctrine of eternal damnation in insufferable torments for our brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers and children in a fiery Hell without ever being forgiven is unjust and a heresy and a crime against humanity and the worst crime ever to have existed or been thought about by anyone at anytime, God or man!

      [†]Yes, the descriptions of Hell are so horrifying that no explanation can enough explain to us how horrifying Hell is; yet do not worry, for the devils and demons will be our friends in the next life and them ours and not our enemies or tormentors, since we forgive and love them just as they forgive and love us! So have hope!

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    4. Universalism was condemned by Pope St. Gregory the Great and many Popes, Saints and Doctors of the Church." The more the world progresses " With an estimated 1 billion abortions worldwide since the late 1950's even Stalin and Mao would have a few laughs at that one. You have been given free will and can believe anything or nothing. You can create your own religion as you just have admitted but none of it will bring Salvation. In essence you believe that since Christ through the Apostles the Fathers and Saints of the Church brought us to 1958 and Pope Pius VII that those 1900+ years were filled with error but the "new" religion of Vatican II is perfect accept for a few adjustments that you have made personally. This then is your platform. A platform that has no legs to stand on in Holy Scripture, Dogma or tradition. It is akin to a man dying of a disease but will not take the cure because he doesn't believe he's sick. Not Believing in Hell will save no one. We are all sinners Christ gave us the cure but we have to accept it. Denial of sin is not the cure but the culprit. When we believe that we know better than God and believe we know the mind of God we are just following the evil ones words "You shall not die..." '...you shall be as Gods". There are only two paths one is away from God usually ending in atheism and death. The other is to God and eternal life.

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    5. Jay, what is your point? That previous Popes, Saints and Doctors of the Church – and even the bible and dogmas themselves – did wrong and teaches wrong in declaring or thinking that our children must be damned in insufferable torments FOR ALL ETERNITY, and therefore, we should believe in this too, even though we know better!? No, that is not how true justice or true love for your neighbor, mother, father, brother, sister or children works!, but rather, when we understand something better (i.e., that we do not desire this eternal damnation, torment, unlove, unhope and unforgiveness to happen to our loved ones), then we accept this position and change for the better and for the more just approach, for if we do not, we deny love and we deny forgiveness, and also deny justice, because a justice must be embraced and followed as a truth EVEN IF AN UNJUST DICTATOR GOD CONDEMNS US FOR IT! And even you know that this argument is true, i.e., that a truth must be followed and believed in even if someone in power condemns us for it, persecutes us for it and punishes us for it! That is why people rightly resisted Hitler and his evil murders in the Concentration Camps, and why no just person thought what Hitler did was “just” or a “good” thing to happen to these innocent people. Only evil, deceived and brainwashed people would think eternal Hell, or Concentration Camps, torture and murder is “just” or a “good” thing! Wake up blind sheep!

      Why do you think God’s Church today have changed position on eternal damnation, separation, and torments and now embrace a Universal approach of Salvation so that all our brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers and children can be saved and be and live in happiness and love (even if they have another faith than ours!) – ass opposed to ETERNAL torments, unhappiness, unlove, unhope and eternal hate!? That is because THEY HAVE STARTED TO BECOME TRULY JUST AND NOT ONLY BEING BRAINWASHED SHEEP THAT FOLLOW A DICTATOR GOD (LIKE A HITLER OR STALIN) INTO WHATEVER HE TEACHES even if this be completely evil and unjust – such as eternal hell and damnation or evil, unjust tormenting and murdering concentration camps for those we love. World War II and Hitler’s Hell of Concentration Camps was also a wake up call, since when this injustice happened to our dear loved neighbours and others, the Church understood better that suffering and tormenting of our neighbours and loved ones and evil, unjust Dictatorship must not be followed and accepted, but rather rebelled against and condemned, and that evil and injustices must be resisted and fought against!, which is also why the Church and the Popes protected the Jews, the other religious, the homosexuals and handicapped people and other oppressed people that were persecuted, even if the “God” Hitler and his evil oppressing and persecuting “Heaven” on Earth state wanted otherwise. Had the Popes rather obeyed Hitler’s or Stalin’s unjust “laws” like brainwashed, blind and evil sheep, they would have been evil and been branded with eternal shame in the history of the world and also in Heaven and earned our scorn and despise. But now, they are remembered for (such as Pope Pius XII) with honor, since they protected the Jews and other persecuted people!

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    6. The argument that previous Popes, Saints and Doctors of the Church did wrong in believing in eternal damnation and separation of our loved ones and separated brethren and therefore, we must continue to believe wrong and unjust also even if we today know better, is stupid and evil and is not true justice, but rather, it is an injustice worthy of condemnation and scorn! I mean, should you really propagate the damnation of our loved ones – even small children – only because ONE GOD desires this when this position is clearly unjust and evil!, why is why no truly just and honest person on earth ever wants this to happen to their neighbour, friend, spouse or child?! That is why only brainwashed “believers” believe in a Hell, whereas unbelievers and a few believers and others who have not let themselves be brainwashed and who dare to think for themselves believe in something better and in forgiveness, since they follow a truer justice, since they desires us better, so that we may live with love, family and friendship, and not in eternal torments, unforgiveness and hate!

      Also, if you are honest, you will easily admit that you do not desire eternal damnation to happen to anyone. So why then believe in it? Stop being afraid of God, and stop denying justice just because you are afraid to be damned! Rather, like the Church of today, believe in something better, and open up a “new” but true faith that is a Faith that must be the true God’s real faith since it it truly Universal (as “Catholic” is truly meant to mean and be, since this is its true meaning. i.e., Universal) rather than believing in Evil just because one evil Dictator “God” of damnation and separation desires so! Also, if the current known “Catholic God” of the Bible and the pre-Vatican II Church is not the true Universal God that desires everyone’s salvation, love and eternal happiness, family and friendship etc., then he must NOT have been the true God to begin with but only an impostor, and the true God is yet to be revealed. That is why I admire Pope Francis when he said he do not believe in the Catholic God (a statement which the Pope was ridiculed and condemned for by Traditionals including myself, since I did not know better back then, so please forgive me, Pope Francis!), he he made this statement, I believe, because this “Catholic God” of the Bible is not truly Universal and actually wants to damn men and women, animals and even children!

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    7. I, just like Pope Francis, desires something better for our dear and loved neighbours and friends that all can love and give love and receive love and friendship, and therefore, we who think the same desires something who is truly “Universal” and who wants to forgive and save, and not eternally damn people, angels and souls! Heck this evil God of the Catholic Church even damns unbaptized Children in a Limbo where they will be eternally exuded from the happiness of Heaven (as if unbaptized children are “unworthy” of being saved and must be treated like worthless trash just like black people also were treated unjustly before in time, just because they were born different!) and even animals would not go to Heaven, according to Saint Bridget’s Revelations, and so they would just die and not exist anymore! What a tragedy and eternal loss of true love from all animals if this would be true!*. I mean, how evil is this? There is truly no end to the evil this doctrine of “eternal damnation” and “separation” entails, and people who fail to resist this evil doctrine will break their conscience and become unjust, since they do not resist an obvious evil when it is presented to them. If a person would be evil for not resisting Hitler or the evil he did when this was obvious to them, then why does not the same apply with God or eternal damnation? Answer: it does apply, and the same arguments with Hitler and his injustices is true also with God, because being a Dictator gives no real reason or true justice for being or doing evil unto others; and doing this or that or that your own will desires this and that you think you have the authority and say to make others obey you is also not an argument, because if you are unjust, you must be resisted and deposed and someone else who is truly just take your place, even if you be God himself! So stop being a judger of persons (i.e., stop being a follower of ONE GOD BEFORE TRUE JUSTICE AND LAW AND LOVE AND FORGIVENESS) and start to become just, Jay, because your current approach is truly shameful and unjust, since you advocate and defend that your own children and loved ones, and also your loved neighbors, brothers and sisters, SHOULD BE ETERNALLY DAMNED IN TORMENTS SO EXCESSIVE AND UNMERCIFUL THAT YOU WOULD DIE AND BE UNMERCIFULLY TORMENTED EVEN BY BEHOLDING THEM! If a man or woman tormented someone else, such as men, women, the elderly and children or animals, on earth with unmerciful torments without wanting to forgive them or release them, they would be evil and hated by the world and persecuted and despised; yet in your hypocritical judgment, you excuse a God that does the same AND EVEN WORSE!, since he desires this torment, hate, unlove, unhope and unforgiveness etc. to happen not only for a time, but also for ALL ETERNITY!

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    8. [*]The Doctrine that unbaptized children and animals and men and angels or demons will be damned and tormented forever is not true, because everything living has a right to be forgiven and change for the better and to continue living and to give love and to receive our love! And yes, I have been told that our wish will be fulfilled, i.e., that everything will be saved in the end – even the Devil himself! – just as the early Church theologian Origin taught centuries ago! This makes me truly happy since this means true justice and love (that desires forgiveness and love towards others) not only exists on the Earth, but also in Heaven!, and that this injustice of eternal hate, separation, torment and damnation will be overcome and beaten, and not become a tragic fact actually happening to our loved ones. I mean, how could anyone live or exist happy in Heaven when seeing billions and billions and billions of our loved ones (that all can love and give love and receive or love) being tormented in merciful torments in a Hell and we did nothing about it? How could anyone be “just” in Heaven and have a good conscience or be happy if he did see this evil happening to our loved others and yet does nothing about it? No, that is not possible and even Heaven will be an unhappy place and unjust if this injustice and crime against love and humans, souls, animals and angels etc. were allowed to continue, for we all desire goodness for others in our hearts for our dear loved ones and our loved neighbours, – and not eternal torments, unhope and unlove, – and therefore, the doctrine of Hell and damnation is evil and leads to evil and would make us unjust even in Heaven if we did not rebel against God or just “accepted” such a faith ONLY BECAUSE HE DESIRES THIS!. – Truly, if God damns anyone, let me be damned myself even if I would be a Saved person according to his law since I follow justice and conscience, because I refuse to submit to this evil Dictator God of damnation and his evil doctrine of eternal Hell in torments, unhappiness, unlove and unhope, but I will rather always rebel against God and advocate the salvation and forgiveness of everyone, even in Heaven! And for this thought I would also be more just than God himself, since I desire everyone’s goodness, whereas God does not. That is also why God will fall in the judgment and not I; and why I and those who think like me (such as the just on Earth and Origen) will have our will and justice, and not God, since he is unjust!

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  7. You have given up to the world and have converted into what you were warning us about. You are a coward and a fraud, and not only that, you are an utter fool, the biggest one i have ever seen.

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    1. If I am a coward and a fraud and a fool only because I desire your and mine and everyone else's salvation, then gladly do I become one!

      Oh what a sad thing the Catholic faith is according to some, i.e., advocating the eternal damnation and suffering for billions of humans, angels and souls, whether they be brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers and children and elderly, is a good thing according to them but if one advocates their salvation and release from Hell and that no one should be damned or suffer in torments, then one is accused and attacked is if one was worthless and as if one is doing no good -- just as if it is a bad thing to fight for the salvation and happiness of all human beings! (The Christian's blindness who defend God and Hell is indeed almost without measure.)

      If I would save people from suffering on earth, such as from a concentration camp, or battle an evil Dictator such as Hitler or the dictator of North Korea, then they would call me good. But when I fight against an greater injustice such an eternal Hell which has torments infinitely worse than any concentration camp, and when I condemn God for the evil he does and allows even though he is just as guilty or even more so than Hitler or the Dictator of North Korea, then I am declared evil and a bad person and a fool even though I desire everyone good, and not evil!

      No, the only fools here are the brainwashed Christians who do not dare to stand up to justice, and who are merely slaving after a God as if he cannot be questioned, just as if he is allowed to do as he pleases and as if justice does not apply to him. Well, justice do apply to God, and he have no right to condemn and eternally damn others when he so easily instead could have converted them by putting them in a prison with the possibility of parole, hence God has no excuse for the evil he did, and neither do you for defending him (i.e., you are guilty for defending evil, even though you too must and will be forgiven and converted), because you know better yet you defend evil only because you are afraid to be "damned" and because you are too much of a coward to stand up to true justice, which in this case condemns God and defends man.

      If you or your own family would burn in Hell, then you would be glad if I fought against God in the next life and released you. That is a fact, because I am sure you certainly don't want to be damned. But if this is the case, apply the same benefit to others also, and stop being a hypocrite who only looks after your own interested.

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  8. You are a satanic worm. Ironically you will absolutely burn in hell forever, in the deepest pit, in satans maw, right alongside Judas.

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    1. Hi Unknown, was this small rant all you had to say in response to all my replies above? i.e., that I am satanic and damned and like Judas? (I don't dislike Judas in anyway nor do I believe he is damned, but let us hope he have a good afterlife just like everyone else, because Judas sins is not greater than ours, i.e., other humans.)

      So because I refuted your claims and proclaimed eternal salvation for you and me and all our brothers and sisters, you call me evil and eternal damned. You are a really sad and tragic person who just like a brainwashed soldier during World War 2 (who followed Hitler into evil) follow an evil God into dictatorial repression and eternal damnation only because he desires this (and nothing else really).

      You are unjust, and truth is not in you and it does not matter to you, because you are not after the truth or true justice or love for our fellow brothers and sisters at the moment.

      Had you had any sense of justice, the following argument would ring true to you: Had God changed position on Hell, so would you! Hence Hell is unjust, because forgiving others and granting them happiness in the afterlife is not a crime or an evil thing, you blind person. But if God would have change his and our laws on murder, theft or rape you would not listen and you would condemn him as evil; but if he would change his views on Hell you would change your own views immediately and obey God, since you understand salvation and forgiveness and happiness for our damned brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers and children is a good and inherently just thing! And as a matter of fact, God has already change his position on eternal damnation, as is seen through the teaching of Vatican II and Universal Salvation, but you refuse to listen. God tells us to listen to the Church for a reason, because even a God will understand true justice better by experiencing the good consciences of men on earth who desires love, goodness, friendship and happiness for our fellow human brothers and sisters! And that is also why the Spirit true justice is the real God, and not an evil God who only follows his own laws into evil dictatorship and demands total obedience from his subjects even if he be evil and desires us "damned" evil!

      Hence this question is about true justice, and no one will actually be damned for being more just than God. And even you understand in your heart and conscience that this argument is true, i.e., that if God is unjust, he will not be able to stand against us who is more right than him. And who can argue about that God is wrong on Hell and eternal damnation? No one can, since this doctrine is evil and can be changed. Hence, it is also for this reason that God desires us to change our views on damnation and espouse a better one, because God wants us - his dear children - to become better than him and more just than him, and he does not want them to be like blind sheep who is following an evil dictator into evil!

      If God is not truly just, God will fall and just men take his place, because justice, love and honesty stands above dictatorship; and even if God now is a dictator, he must fall and let someone else makes the laws who desires more good than him, because his evil must not be allowed or permitted when better alternatives are available for the damned souls, angels and humans. Forgiveness, love and happiness must be open to everyone, even the damned, demons and devils.

      Vatican II and the world is clearly aware of this since they seek justice and not only to panter to a God who wishes us evil, and that is also why they have changed their views and positions on Hell and God's evil eternal damnation.

      I hope you see and understand that the Church of God, the Vatican II Catholic Church, is right and on the right path.

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    2. You are the only sad person here. You allowed Satan to twist your mind, until you now have become the very same thing you claimed you would destroy. You are a relativist in denial now and can't truly prove your apocatastatic heresy. You are a fraud.

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    3. Just to show how stupid, foolish and brainwashed you are, the fact is that you would call be a sad person if I tried to save your mother from Hell, or perhaps she was damned according to God's law. Yes, then, according to you, if I fought against God to save your dear mother, I would be a sad person, a fool, a heretic, a damned person unworthy of anything but damnation, a fraud, an apostate etc. and all of this you call me only because I desire that your mother and father, and everyone else's mothers and fathers and friends and sons and daughters too, may be saved!

      The truth is that you are an apostate and a heretic against love, and against the natural law written in our heart, because you are merely slaving after a God and his evil laws, and not after truth and justice, which God is supposed to follow.

      A heretic, blind, a fool, it does not matter, and we will see each other in Heaven, as as with everyone else, including the "damned", but it is conversations like this that really brings out the worst in brainwashed Christians like yourself, because according to you, to right for the salvation for the entire human race (which is a noble thing) is looked upon you as sad, as apostasy, as heretical, as fit for only damnation. Please wake up you blind fool, and stop following one God before all justice. You are a follower of one evil an unjust god, and not a follower of the true and just God and of justice.

      If you adhered to Vatican II, you would have no worries, because in Vatican II, what I teach is accepted, and Universal Salvation is an accepted doctrine. According to the teaching of Vatican II and my self, God has either changed position on Hell, or never meant is as it was thought, because he only desired to test us. Not all in Vatican II holds that everyone will be saved, but many do. You could be one of them, my blind friend.

      Please stop resisting Vatican II, and embrace truth, logic, true justice and love for our fellow human brothers and sisters and children, which unless he would have been stopped, the majority of which would have been damned and not saved, but now, the story is different, because even a God must humble himself and change when he understands he was wrong an unjust, as in fact he was.

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  9. "Jerome?"

    Well, well. I was taught if someone is so cowardly not to sign their writings with a full name, do not bother with them. Too many errors to count. Too many hypocrtial and opposing statements by "Jerome?" Good bye. God will not be mocked. I suggest reading 'Dead on Arrival' by Rev. Anthony Cekeda, along with some of his others books. Signed - Robert M. Del Re

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    1. My blind friend, my name is already publicized through my other homepages, and no, I am not afraid to use my full name. My name is Ville Hietanen, and I live in Sweden, was born in Finland. So, does this make you feel better now?

      You say I write hypocritically and write opposing statement, yet refuse to point out any. Why not debate with me on this topic instead of just ignoring all my arguments?

      Also, read my comment to yourself just above and let it sink in, that your position is a great shame and heretical.

      Vatican II and obedience to God's will to adhere to His current Church is the way to go, and not to live in the past or in past understandings that was incorrect.

      Also, if you were "damned", I wold fight to save you also, so this is about all of us, and not only about you or me.

      I hope you have a wonderful live and then after death, we will meet each other in Heaven with everything else that has ever existed!

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    2. Dear Jerome.
      I am glad that you have realized that the priesthood, Mass, etc. after Vatican II are valid. Do however watch out for some terrible theologians that were and are still swimming around it like sharks.

      I write to you here more than anything because I am confused as to how you seem to have accepted the idea of an empty hell, if I understand you correctly.
      How do you reconcile wanting to be faithful with the very fact that this idea goes against scripture, tradition, the Fathers of The Church, the very words of Jesus?!

      I would love to know if you would apply this to the fallen angels as well, where is satan and his cohort going to spend eternity? Where is Judas (whom by the way many exorcist tell of experiences encountering him during session)? What is that about with is the gate... but narrow the path and few those who enter few...? Is the council of Florence invalid (But the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to Hell to be punished, but with unequal pains” )? What difference did Jesus dying in the cross make? How could Jesus talk about hell so many times? Was He lying? Was the Church wrong for almost 2000 years? Revelation 20 a joke? What in the world is this: "Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels”? Saint Paul a n unmerciful liar : Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters....?

      There is like 100 more things... I just can't see what the basis is for believing everyone will be saved other that it feels good.

      Could you point to ANY Scripture, Tradition, Fathers, Ancient disciplines or anything you can think of to sustain that idea? But does it matter? When you go against what the Church believes and has always believed, what is that called? Saint Alphonsus would never agree to a conscience going against the Doctrine of the Church. Usually that means it is not conscience moving the person (almost every time) or it is a malformed conscience.

      Please understand that even if you think the pastoral "focus" has changed, the Church has never said even to this day decades after V2 that there is anything close to universal salvation. That many priest formed in recent times don't talk about hell and prefer to speak as if it might be empty has nothing to do with anything, nothing to do with doctrine. What are you standing on then?

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    3. PART 1

      Hello Diego, thanks for your comment. I will try to answer your questions thus:

      You wrote: “I am glad that you have realized that the priesthood, Mass, etc. after Vatican II are valid.”

      Response: Yes I do believe the Vatican II is valid, that it is the true Church, that the priests and mass are valid, and that this Church is God's Church.

      You wrote: “Do however watch out for some terrible theologians that were and are still swimming around it like sharks.”

      Response: I am not sure who these would be, but I would not considering anyone a “shark” unless those who advocate evil or doctrines condemning our brothers and sisters to eternal damnation, since this is the most evil thing to have ever existed and they who hold this position are deceived, since it is wrong to believe in or wish eternal evil upon others – and that is also why I am fighting against the doctrine of Hell and eternal damnation and separation.

      You wrote: “I write to you here more than anything because I am confused as to how you seem to have accepted the idea of an empty hell, if I understand you correctly.”

      Response: I have adopted this position through justice, because eternally damning people is an evil thing and an evil doctrine and unjust, and forgiveness and love is greater than hate and unforgiveness, hence everything contrary to forgiving one's enemies or those who failed in life is evil.

      By the way, would you consider damning a five year old to Hell a “just” doctrine only because God wanted this punishment? Answer: It is not, and this doctrine and position is evil. No, responsibly parenting him in the next life and saving him and doing him good is a better solution and the only JUST one.

      You wrote: “How do you reconcile wanting to be faithful with the very fact that this idea goes against scripture, tradition, the Fathers of The Church, the very words of Jesus?!”

      Response: Words or positions in themselves is not defined by justice or justice in itself, but only true justice is just whatever anyone would say against it, and that is why murder or rape will always be wrong and no Saint or God could actually change this position and make it good, the same with Hell, because Hell is eternal murder and rape of humans and souls and angels and is unjust. So even if God and saints taught eternal Hell, this does not make this position just, only justice is just, and Hell is not justice, since working on bad people's conversion is a better and the only just position in this case, as even you should know. That is why the world works on criminals betterment and conversion, and not their eternal torment and damnation.

      Forgiveness and love is the truth and justice, and not eternal hatred and damnation, which is actually evil and unjust.

      You wrote: “I would love to know if you would apply this to the fallen angels as well,”

      Response: I apply this same doctrine to the angels, humans, souls, even stones and trees and everything else that has ever been created, whether non living or living creatures. Everyone must be saved and have a chance of salvation, and no one must be allowed to eternally die or eternally perish, since this is unjust.

      Since God is all powerful, he could create a prison for evil people where they are treated humanly and wait for their conversion, and therefore, God has no excuse with his unjust Hell where he actually tenements them with a will to never forgive them or release them.

      If souls could become good in the next life (which I wholeheartedly believe is the case, since love and forgiveness and truth is stronger than hatred and unforgiveness) and yet could would not forgive them or release them, that would make God a monster, since to not forgive and save people and release them when they have changed, is evil.

      If the world forgives and releases criminals when they have become better men, then so must God. This is justice, whereas eternal Hell and unforgiveness is an injustice.

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    4. PART 2

      You wrote: “where is satan and his cohort going to spend eternity?”

      Response: You ask where Satan and his cohorts will spend eternity. Answer: they will spend eternity in Heaven, or in a place where they want to be, if they don't want to be with God in his Heaven (which is understandable, since God desired them evil) and they will live in happiness, and we will be friends, since without friendship and happiness, hatred only will rule, and this is wrong. That is why it is wrong to torment people, because torments only make them hate in return, and this breeds more hatred. No, instead show others love, and work on becoming friends with them for all eternity and love each other, because if we do, we all will become friends and family again in the end. I promise you that.

      Let us believe in love and friendship, and not hatred and eternal separation.

      You wrote: “Where is Judas (whom by the way many exorcist tell of experiences encountering him during session)?”

      Response: The same reply as given above applies to Judas, since he is a human being and soul with feelings too that needs to be respected and love, and provided only he is given love and understanding and friendship, this soul and human being will love and be our friends, as I am sure he already is.

      If humans on earth could love others and be good, it is wrong to say that this is impossible or that this should be denied a soul and human in the next life. No, let us work on loving each other instead for all eternity and become friends, and let us not believe in eternal hate, rejection, unlove and unforgiveness.

      You wrote: “What is that about with is the gate... but narrow the path and few those who enter few...?”

      Response: This can be interpreted differently, such as that few people choose the path God would have desired, and hence few people walk on the road God would have wanted – and that is all. But if interpreted in the sense that few are saved, this is actually evil, because only saving few when there are many humans souls and angels is discrimination or genocide, and an injustice, and no greater injustice exist than damning a beloved human brother and sister or angel to eternal torments, since this is evil, because if this soul was only forgiven, it would love in return. Hence love is murdered and denied in Hell, and this is criminal and wrong. Let us therefore believe in love and forgiveness even if God does not, and not in hatred, separation or unforgiveness.

      By the way, would you say that a nun who lived a good life but only was ashamed to confess a sin was a bad person, or that she had chosen a wide path to destruction? Yet, if this nun did not confess her sin before death, according to God's law, she would be damned, and this is evil. This is to damn someone over nothing, when God so easily just could have forgiven her. That is why I call God unjust, because he is, because God's judgments is not based on justice, but rather on his own personal opinion just like with Hitler or the Dictator of North Korea.

      Had God followed justice, he would not damn this nun, but forgive her. The same with everyone else that God damns (even children), even those who are positively evil in the next life. Let them who are evil be in a prison without tormenting them and with the possibility of parole, and if God is to lazy to work on their conversion and betterment, then let me do in instead, and I offer my self for this work oh God and Mary for all eternity, for the conversion and betterment of evil people, angels and souls, so that we all may be friends and love each other in the end and for eternity.

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    5. PART 3

      You wrote: “Is the council of Florence invalid (But the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to Hell to be punished, but with unequal pains” )?”

      Answer: Every teaching that is not according to justice is invalid and wrong, yes. To eternally torment and unforgive others only because one God said so, is not justice, and that is why the Vatican II Catholic Church, who more and moe wakes up to this truth, are moving away from repressong and evil teachings like this, and why they now embrace Universalism, teaching that everyone can be saved even non-Christians and Catholics, in complete opposition to Council of Florence dogmatic decree that only Catholics can be saved.

      Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, The Athanasian Creed, Sess. 8, Nov. 22, 1439, ex cathedra: “Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity.” (Decrees of the Ecumenical Councils, Vol. 1, pp. 550-553; Denzinger 39-40.)

      As we can see, only Catholics can be saved according to this dark and repressing decree, but this position is rightly rejected by the modern Church since they know and understand better, which is why they embrace Universalism and salvation for everyone, even atheists and unbelievers, and homosexuals etc.

      Yes, when we know better, we have an obligation to change. What God says or what the older Church or saints said really has nothing to do with anything, since only justice matters, and those who think or teach that only Catholics should be saved and that people of other faiths should be damned only because they where born different, are repressing and discriminating others, and this is wrong.

      That is why we must act like grown ups and condemn evil and wrong when we see it, and even dare to correct god and his Church when we see that do and teach wrong. What parent does not correct their children? Let us therefore correct god also, and his Church, since they have acted like little children, not knowing any better.

      You wrote: “What difference did Jesus dying in the cross make?”

      Answer: According to justice, his death made no difference, since he only applied salvation to his own children, and this is clearly wrong, since salvation must be open and given to everyone. Had God been truly just, he would have applied salvation even to those who died unworthy according to him, and saved them despite them being unworthy according to him, since a true mother or fathers truly desires the happiness of all their children, and not only of some. Yet God in his evil doctrine proclaimed that only the saved will be happy for eternity, whereas everyone else, which is most, shall be and remain damned in torments worse than sawing asunder a human whilst still living, or burning him or her alive in a fire but without them actually dying. See what a monster God is, and what he teaches shall happen to our beloved human beings, to our beloved brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers and children. This is truly evil, and nothing more evil exists than this Hell where God allows and wills souls to go to be tormented.

      You wrote: “How could Jesus talk about hell so many times? Was He lying?”

      Answer: He did this either in order to test us in order to see who among his children wants to be truly just and not just let God get away with everything, or in truth, he actually believed in this and taught it and implemented this to the damned, but afterwards changed position (which is why his Church, has taken a different approach in doctrine currently).

      Also, a fear of Hell also helps some live a better life, but this is no excuse to actually eternally damning anyone just because they failed in life.

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    6. PART 4

      You wrote: “Was the Church wrong for almost 2000 years?”

      Answer: Since only justice is truth and Hell is evil, yes, the Church was wrong for 2000 years and then Vatican II happened, and then the Church started to become right again. Do you know why? That is because damnation is evil, and because it is evil to damn someone to eternal torments without even forgiving them. This is evil. And the Church knows this, which is why they have changed position and why they will change it even more in the future.

      Again, justice is to be judged according to justice, and not according to a God or a dictator, for this is not justice, and if God tells us that murder or rape all of sudden is right, does not make it right ,as even you know, hence, justice is not based on what God or the Church says, but again, based on what justice really is, and justice teaches us that damning others and not forgiving them is evil. Hence Hell is evil, for in Hell love is murdered in the damned and they are never forgiven. This is evil, and this is wrong. And since god finally humbled himself, he changed position after 2000 years, which is why the Church also changed position. Dare to believe in this, my friend.

      You wrote: “Revelation 20 a joke? What in the world is this: "Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels"?”

      Answer: Yes every teaching which proclaims evil is a joke and despicable to me. What worse than Hell? What more evil than Hell where eternal torments will be inflicted upon billions and billions of mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, angels and even children? Hence these teachings are rightly rejected by me, and I side with the Church Father Origin and those in the Church in the past and today that believe as we do, that in the end or already, everyone will be or already is saved, even the Devil himself, because God has changed and he will humble himself. So help us Mary.

      You wrote: “Saint Paul an unmerciful liar: "Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters...."?”

      Answer: Saint Paul was not lying, but he was simply deceived and brainwashed by God in the same way the Germans was deceived and brainwashed by Hitler, or the North Koreans deceived and brainwashed by their dictator. Hence, as we can see, people can and will be deceived if they do not know better, and if they are not completely just. So yes, in a sense, Paul was unmerciful, because he was not completely just because he only thought of pleasing an evil God in damning trillions, rather than standing up to this evil God and defending the angels and humanity, who was in need of forgiveness and salvation.

      You wrote: “There is like 100 more things... I just can't see what the basis is for believing everyone will be saved other that it feels good.”

      Answer: Did you forget about the basis of justice, i.e., that justice teaches salvation and forgiveness is the better and more kind solution, and not eternal damnation and torment and UNFORGIVENESS?

      Or do you mean a five year old child should be damned and you cannot actually see how this child could be forgiven and saved and responsible parented in the next life, rather then being damned, and you can't see how this is the truth and the just position? ANSWER!

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    7. PART 5

      You wrote: “Could you point to ANY Scripture, Tradition, Fathers, Ancient disciplines or anything you can think of to sustain that idea?”

      Answer: I can, and I already mentioned Origen, also Clement of Alexandria (see https://forums.catholic.com/t/origen-of-alexander-christian-universalism-beliefs-in-early-catholicism-thru-6th-century/192293/3.

      And this is what I have written about it previously in another article (please, do read my articles on the subject, especially this one and the one below https://against-all-heresies-and-errors.blogspot.com/2019/05/q-why-damnation-and-eternal-torments-is-evil.html):

      Jerome wrote: “According to Wikipedia, the "Golden Rule" (which even God himself teaches in his Bible) teaches this: "The Golden Rule is the principle of treating others as one's self would wish to be treated. It is a maxim that is found in many religions and cultures." "Therefore, whatever you want people to do for you, do the same for them, because this summarizes the Law and the Prophets." (Matthew 7:12) Too bad the hypocrite God does not follow his own rules and laws about doing good upon his own enemies and other people, such as the damned: "But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven." (Matthew 5:44-45)” (Cf. https://against-all-heresies-and-errors.blogspot.com/2019/05/q-answer-as-to-why-i-condemn-hell-and-god.html)

      You wrote: “But does it matter? When you go against what the Church believes and has always believed, what is that called?”

      Answer: It is called justice, and responsible parenting, and not disobedience. Only disobedience is truly so when one goes against a common good or a valid object of obedience, such as obeying parents in small and great matters, but if parents, the bible or even the Church commanded you evil, then we must reject it. The same with God, his Church and his Bible. They teach evil, hence they must be rejected and responsible parented by those who have grown up and understands things better. That is common sense, which even you understand.

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    8. PART 6

      You wrote: “Saint Alphonsus would never agree to a conscience going against the Doctrine of the Church. Usually that means it is not conscience moving the person (almost every time) or it is a malformed conscience.”

      Answer: I do believe that reasonable as I am, that he would agreed with me. And even more so if he had lived today. Do you know why? That is also because he would be able to see today that even the Church has changed her positions and beliefs, so why then would he be obstinate and defend the old beliefs that God and the Church held when even God/the Church has changed position? He would not. Alphonsus was a man of the Church, and would have adhered to the Church, as most people do.

      You wrote: “Please understand that even if you think the pastoral "focus" has changed, the Church has never said even to this day decades after V2 that there is anything close to universal salvation. That many priest formed in recent times don't talk about hell and prefer to speak as if it might be empty has nothing to do with anything, nothing to do with doctrine. What are you standing on then?”

      Answer: Perhaps you should study Saint John Paul II more and Pope Francis and the Second Vatican Council and Blessed Paul VI, who all of them clearly taught Universal Salvation.

      Take these examples from the Popes as clearly proving and demonstrating this fact:

      Pope Saint John Paul II, General Audience, Dec. 27, 1978: “Jesus is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity become a man; and therefore in Jesus, human nature and therefore THE WHOLE OF HUMANITY, IS REDEEMED, SAVED, ENNOBLED TO THE EXTENT OF PARTICIPATING IN ‘DIVINE LIFE’ BY MEANS OF GRACE.

      Pope Francis, Evangelii Gaudium (# 254), Nov. 24, 2013: “NON-CHRISTIANS [SUCH AS PAGANS AND ATHEISTS], BY GOD’S GRACIOUS INITIATIVE, WHEN THEY ARE FAITHFUL TO THEIR OWN CONSCIENCES, CAN LIVE “JUSTIFIED BY THE GRACE OF GOD”, and thus be “associated to the paschal mystery of Jesus Christ”… to the sacramental dimension of sanctifying grace... to live our own beliefs.”

      Besides, as I noted, my position is not based on what others say or do not say, but on justice, and justice teaches Universal Salvation and condemns eternal damnation and torments. That others also agrees with me on this is also a plus and is great, because others have also seen the truth.

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    9. PART 7

      ADDENDUM

      Besides, when the Church and people in the Church clearly teaches Universal Salvation today and even that Hell is empty and this is never condemned by anyone in the Church, this shows approval. Can the Pope be aware of that such teachings is happening in the Church and not condemn it if it was clearly wrong and it was his duty to condemn it? No, he cannot, which is why they condemn many things, but never have they condemned anyone for teaching Universal Salvation.

      Had such a thing happened in the 1500 century, however, it would have been a different story. Hence, the Church authorities approval of others who teach Universal Salvation today in a more clear way, in addition to their own teaching on Universal Salvation, all confirm the doctrine of Universal Salvation.

      Silent approval is equivalent of acceptance when no condemnation ever follows, and the same logic is true in a court of law. Even if you never speak anything, if the evidence goes against you, you will still be convicted.

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