Wednesday, May 15, 2019

Q&A: Damnation and Eternal Torments for Our Children and Beloved Ones is "True" and "Good" but Salvation for Everyone is "Evil" and a "Heresy"?

Introduction: My response is found below. Even if you do not agree with me which is understandable, since people fear being damned, and of being disobedient to something they "think" they must adhere too (no one must adhere to an injustice!), you will at least see and acknowledge in your conscience that my position is more good, noble and honorable than God's, since he wishes souls to be damned whereas I do not! You also do not want your own children, mother or father, friend, neighbour etc. to be damned, but is only forced to accept such a position through force – unless you care to stand up to a justice above God's "justice", that is, of wanting to do more good than God himself! Just as good humans help other humans on earth and desire their good, love and happiness, even if they are evil, so are we obliged to help and wish good – and not eternal torments – on those that God allows to be damned.

However, I have been told several times that all will be saved in the end, and that God has changed his position on Hell. This makes me happy, and I hope (and believe) this is true because it is just, but the fact that God, the Bible, the Church and Saints still teaches Hell and damnation angers me. Also, most Catholics don't give me any comfort either, but only tells me I am deceived, that I will go to Hell, and that there is a Hell and that many or even most humans are lost. Perhaps I should speak less about that God is evil and that he is good, just ignoring Hell completely or just say God forgives everyone like many in the Vatican II does? Then less people would take offence. But how then would those who think Hell is "just" see that it is evil unless someone harshly condemns it? That is why I condemn Hell and God (just as I would any dictator) if he now truly condemns souls for all eternity, since it is evil to do so and against all laws, both human, natural and divine, but it won't make much difference to those that won't change position anyway.

Nataly Ferreira: “Save Mary. Jerome the devil is deceiving you, causing you to follow your conscience (your own self). And still blaspheming against the Holy Trinity. The Virgin Mary would never accept these kinds of behavior offending her Creator.

If hell exists, it is not because God wants us to play there to suffer. The condemnation is just because we deserve it by obeying our fallen and rebellious flesh, instead of obeying the spirit. In his [my] arguments I have seen nothing mentioned about demons, Satan and Lucifer the Prince of Darkness. Or in your consciousness they ceased to exist too, and turned around are just fiction?

You are in a big mistake, worse than a heresy. For he blasphemes God, saying that he is evil, that he is not perfect. Look at the nonsense you're talking about?

In your article, you have many contradictions.

What happened to you during these absent times? Have you prayed the rosary? For the serpent is deceived.

Please read the articles on your site again, to get out of the darkness of error and revive the faith that moved the Saints.

Heaven is for the violent, violent toward their flesh and passions. Blessedness, penance, prayer, and Faith had not been reached in bliss.

Your conscience will not save you, but now at this moment what may bring you into the state of grace is the confession of your sins. We get nothing with the power of the mind, that is diabolical, they are temptations of the new age, of the Antichrist. For in this thought it makes us to be "god" of ourselves.

You will be in my prayers to wake up in this deep sleep that you live, thinking that everything will cease to exist through your consciousness. And that Mary is God ...

I am sad because the devil managed to deceive a great fighter of the true Faith. This Faith that moved many Saints to true happiness.”

Jerome: What a sad faith the Catholic faith is according to some. Damnation and eternal torments of our children is "true" and "good" but salvation for everyone is "evil" and "heresy"! It is like an apostasy, i.e., complete withdrawal from the true faith, which is to do good and to work for the salvation, love and happiness for all of our children even if God does not!

And you did not respond to almost anything, no arguments was answered, no points responded too. Nothing! When I answer someone, I usually make mention of all important points and arguments and gives some answer. You did not do this. For example, how would you answer the arguments that you would not damn or ALLOW TO DE DAMNED your own children? Why then excuse a God who does this (i.e., allows to be damned and eternally tormented his and our children) when he could look the other way around, or just let them live on earth for all eternity rather than damning anyone?

And what is the worst blasphemy or who is the worst blasphemer: am I the worst blasphemer for complaining against God and calling him evil for allowing billions and billions of children, men, women, elderly, brothers and sisters, fathers and mothers to be damned and remain damned in a SEA OF FIRE AND ETERNAL TORMENTS? or is God the worst blasphemer against all justice, love and forgiveness for allowing them to live in damnation, without hope, without love, in unhappiness and insufferable torments? You call me a blasphemer because I want to save those God damns and because I condemn him and call him evil for his deed! and you call God “good” for damning our children, mothers and fathers even though damnation is the worst of evils that has ever happened (even worse than Hitler, or Satan himself)!

Those who are Christians will sadly only see evil in wanting our children to be saved, and they will do all to excuse the God who allows our children to be damned and tormented forever – only because they fear being persecuted, or fear being damned for standing up against an injustice (i.e., Hell).

Again, you also avoided my arguments that you would never ALLOW and wish eternal damnation or insufferable torments on your own children. Yet you seem to think God is somehow innocent concerning Hell, as if he could not make it not to happen. As if he could not create a better place for the damned. ANSWER: WOULD YOU BE EVIL IF YOU ALLOWED YOUR OWN CHILDREN TO BE ETERNALLY TORMENTED, AND YOU DID NOT HINDER IT? Honest answer: Yes you would! You know what judgment the world does on those bad parents that can't take care of their own children, or that allows or permits evil upon them. They will be sent to jail and loose their children. Yet God is judged differently by you. Yet you would easily condemn a human being for neglecting and tormenting his own children, but you do not dare to condemn God for doing the same! This thinking, of not judging God and just excusing him, whatever he does or teaches, is evil and hypocritical.

Do you really think the damned must be damned and be tormented and there is no other way and that God is innocent? What kind of mother are you to think only torments, pain, suffering, no hope and no love for all eternity must be the lives for billions of children – for our beloved brothers and sisters that can be loved – just because God said so? Should you not at least show your true motherly side and acknowledge that this is not your will and that you do not want this, and that you do not agree with God, but that you can't help it since you are forced to accept this doctrine? That would be more honest. But the only thing I have heard from you is that I am deceived, that I am a true blasphemer and heretic (i.e., damned) etc. No true mother truly wants any child to be damned or tormented, yet believe it or not, but there are actual records of even 5 year old children in hell burning and being tormented. Do you still think Hell should exist or that there are no other solutions or that Hell is "just" or that God will get away with this, for all eternity too? I refuse to believe this, and I can assure you, when we die we will see that it is God who was wrong and who will humble himself!

*Update: In her latest response (which made me happy) she acknowledge that she do not want her own children to be damned, and that she would wish there was forgiveness for the damned, but that Hell is a Revelation, and hence, according to her, it must be believed. This answer is honest, and she followed her conscience with this response, for she was honest according to her conscience when she acknowledged that she desires there be hope for the damned.*

If you read my article you will have read many answers as to why there need to be no Hell, and why they could have been saved and lived in happiness and why God commits mortal sin by not having thought of something better for the damned (if Hell now is real and not only a true scare tactic). Would it be hard to let all the damned live on earth in a human body and hence make them live in human happiness instead of damnation? Of course not! Do humans want to live in torments and unhappiness? Certainly not! So the argument that they are always evil and can't be good is false, because they had goodness in them while they lived on earth. My judgment – which would be shared by all who have reason and love true justice above God's will if his will is evil – (if I had God's place) would be that they could live on earth instead (if they don't want to live in Heaven or we can't get along), but I also do believe that Heaven even is for them and that they can become good.

If you have not, read my updated email to you in this blogpost below (it contains a lot more than what I sent to you originally):

I did not mention devils or demons because it does not matter. They exist, but they have become, or will be good in my belief, since I have given them hope and forgiveness, so they are my friends. Do you think I want even the devil to be damned? No, I wish his salvation and happiness, and I will fight for that all the damned will be saved. And in my belief and in that of Origen, everyone will be saved in the end. Yes everyone, and that includes the devil. What is hard to believe with that the devil himself could make himself become like a little child and start to love if he was only forgiven and was granted happiness and love? How can demons love or have hope if they are only tormented and live without hope? Can't you see that they are forced to hate? If you don't believe me, try to torment yourself or be tormented by someone in insufferable torments, and then tell me what you think and if you are happy with this life or if you start to fell an urge to hate! If someone tormented you and you had no hope and you could not bear it, and you thought this would endure forever and there was no hope and you received no consolation from anyone, you will start to hate. Can one live in insufferable torments and not start to hate when one cannot bear it? Even I would have started to hate God and even Mary if I was always tormented in insufferable torments and I had no hope of being released. Not that I want to hate, but if one is not forgiven or granted love or happiness, it only seems natural to start to hate those who deny you this happiness. Hence Hell is evil, since it forces us to hate. Without love and hope, there is only darkness and hate.

I only did not mention demons because God is the ultimate cause for their fall and damnation, since he could have thought of something else, like a prison without eternal torments, or a holding place until they had become good, or even an eternal earth were they could always live as humans so they could feel love, and be loved etc. I see God as the biggest demon here for damning and allowing to be damned his own children, and not the demons themselves that fell or damned humans (they did wrong, but no crime deserves eternal torments). Besides, humans can be good on earth and love and be happy but are denied this goodness and happiness and love for all eternity in Hell, just because God wants this. Think of this, even humans that have loved, been good etc. have been damned, according to God and Saints just because they made some mistake, such as obstinately not confessing their sins due to shame (there are many examples of this). So what does it tell us? It tells us that they can love, but are denied love. This is evil. Let them live on earth always instead than tormenting them. What is hard with that? And remember, this is only one solution of many that I have thought of that would be better then Hell!

Mary is not God, but she is better then God and might become God (I have also said that perhaps she is God since she is better than God* or may become God or take his place). Do you not understand my argument? God is unworthy of his title, hence, someone else will probably receive his place. How can we let God remain God with his powers, if he wants to always torment his own children or damn anyone? Hence, God needs to be deprived of his powers so that he can not hurt anyone anymore. Would an earthly judge have judged in the same way? Obviously, yes! They already makes such judgments all the time, i.e., depriving unworthy parents their children if they are bad parents and hurt their children.

* I have wondered, sometimes, if Mary perhaps could be a God in hiding even if she don't know this yet, and that the "God" now in heaven is someone else who is actually evil but who thought he could do better or be the true God. But this “God” has failed, since he wishes to damn souls, whereas Mary desires all to be saved. That is my belief, that Mary will desire all souls to be saved in the end, and that she in fact has done so already. I don't see a problem in thinking about who might or might not be God when the “God” we think is God in imperfect and evil in wanting to damn his own and our children. We would not allow a human person near our children who allows or permits small children and men and women to be tormented and murdered, yet we think all is well with God who permits even worse – i.e., eternal torments and damnation? If God could loose his Godhood title, I would deprive him of it, and I would gladly take it to myself if no one else wanted this title, not because I am good or God, but because I would desire that no evil (such as Hell or damnation and eternal torments and unhappiness) may ever again happen to our children, mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters, friends or enemies! If no one else will do it, then I will gladly do it and take God's place in order to prevent this dictator from ever damning (or allowing to be damned) anyone again!

Stop being a hypocrite. Had I done the same or thought the same against an earthly ruler that is an evil ruler and a dictator that torments his own children or human beings in concentration camps, such as the dictator of North Korea, then you would have called me good, noble, honorable, and the whole world would love me, even the Christians and Catholics. But if I desire to do the same with God, i.e., deprive him of his powers so that he can do no more evil, then only the Christians and Catholics complain, whereas the world and unbelievers, (and also the Christians eventually), will praise me. Do you not see the hypocritical thinking here? I am evil for doing and thinking good and about something better, and God is good for doing evil and damning souls and I am evil for desiring his evil to cease, whereas God is good for allowing this evil to continue – even though you all know in your conscience it is an evil thing to damn and torment one's own children, without love, without hope, without happiness, for all eternity!

If you could only see the damned being converted and being forgiven, and being saved from this torment and fire, you would cry of happiness and feelings of love and forgiveness and hope, and so would they. There are even children in Hell, mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters, neighbours etc. that all could live a better eternity, but is denied this by an evil God dictator. I have sometimes wondered if the Devil fell because he wanted to do more good than God himself, and if perhaps the Devil wanted God's place because he desired to do more good than God himself, such as wanting those more disobedient or "sinners" to live in happiness instead, or in an earthly life for all eternity (anything but damnation, really). If this was the case, then this “God” was the evil person from the beginning, whereas the Devil was good.

We will all se at the judgment what was the truth. We will also see the truth about the Devil – if he was truly evil in his thought – but if he would do more good then God (such as not damning anyone and letting us be happy like a large family), why did not God just fall and let him have his place? God must have known from eternity that he would damn souls! Did he know the devil would not do this if he had received God's place? If so, then the Devil would have been more deserving then God, since a just and good ruler (even if he is a bad person) does not only see to the good and the welfare of his own children, but to all his subjects. (I am not saying the Devil would have done better, I am only speculating, for when God has done such an evil thing as Hell and eternal torments and damnation, I cannot but think that God is imperfect in every way and evil if he does not change position.)

You also say my conscience will not save me, as if an injustice is above a true justice or clean conscience. If God has a bad conscience concerning Hell but I have not, who will fall? If I have more right then God himself concerning the damned and I desire their happiness whereas God does not, who will fall? me or him? If we are honest, we can see that it is God who will fall since he is wrong. But I will not damn him, but forgive him, since I desire forgiveness and happiness for everyone. How can God resist my good thought, even if God is God, when my thought, my conscience, my justice, is good, and even according to everyone else's conscience – if they are but honest? Why else does not the world judge as unmerciful as God does? That is because they know it is evil to torment others. Why do you think Vatican II has distanced itself from Hell? Because they know it is evil to damn our children. That is why Vatican II follow their conscience by desiring good upon all men, whereas the pre-Vatican II Church did not to this to the same extent.

If God is truly just, he must fall and allow us humans and other saints our will of not damning anyone for all eternity, for I am not the only person who do not want this (who do not want damnation). Most if not all saints while they lived on earth desired the salvation of everyone, even though they believed this might not be the case. Why then deny them this happiness of having everyone saved? No one wants damnation and we have only been pre-programmed to think there must be damnation. Also, no just judge on earth would agree with God on this point of Hell and eternal torments, why then deny all human justice and let God be a dictator? Is God truly just or a just God if he denies all human law and justice and allows himself to be a dictator, wishing evil upon children, men women and elderly when all men do not agree with this judgment?

If there was a movie were an evil dictator like God was deprived of his power and those damned children saved from a Hell (like with Hitler and the concentration camps) then you would cry and be happy that this evil man was hindered and prevented from doing evil, and you would be happy over the tormented people's release and salvation and forgiveness. But when it comes to God and his heaven or hell, then you do not dare to think like this, and you will only let God have his will, even damning billions and billions of children, elderly, men and women, brothers and sisters etc. and you do not even think a person who fights against God like against Hitler is doing a good and noble deed, BUT RATHER, THAT HE IS EVIL, A HERETIC, AND DECEIVED, as if it is to be "deceived" to desire the eternal happiness and salvation and love for our brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers and children.

I have already read my articles, and I can only see truth and goodness in them, since I desire more good then God himself for the damned. I also see no point in writing anymore to you for now, since you only shame yourself by your writings. Can you not see that it is shameful to defend evil (eternal damnation and torments for our children, mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters) and that it is a disgrace to condemn goodness (to desire their happiness and forgiveness)? Yet that is what you have done. It's tragic, but understandable. We have been programmed, as Christians, to defend God no matter what, but when I have explained myself so clearly why it is different here, it is shameful to not at least acknowledge that I hold a good cause, i.e. that I wish and desires good.

I understand many become shocked when I call God evil, but even if so is the case, I have explained myself so clearly that no one should wonder about it, since God damns and allows souls and humans to be damned and tormented for ever (therefore, this argument by itself should make them understand something: that there is something seriously wrong with God, hell and heaven). I have been so clear that it is only annoying and angering that Catholics can be so dishonest against their conscience, and that they will just defend God and an evil doctrine such as Hell no matter what. If I was God or had his place and was the same as now, I would not permit anyone of our children to be eternally damned. I can promise you that. This thought by itself should make you happy and make you want me to have God's place (since I would save all souls whereas God does not), but I wonder if you even dare to think this thought. (I would be happy to deprive God of his place if I could and even give you his place if I knew you would do a better job! I can be  totally honest about that, but most Christians can not and they allow evil only because God is God.)

I need to repeat this: I have been told several times that all will be saved in the end, and that God has changed his position on Hell. This makes me happy, and I hope this is true, but the fact that God, the Bible, the Church and Saints still teaches Hell and damnation angers me. Also, most Catholics don't give me any comfort either, but only tells me I am deceived, that I will go to Hell, and that there is a Hell and that many or even most humans are lost. Perhaps I should speak less about that God is evil and that he is good, just ignoring Hell completely or just say God forgives everyone like many in the Vatican II does? Then less people would take offence. But how then would those who think Hell is "just" see that it is evil unless someone harshly condemns it? That is why I condemn Hell and God (just as I would any dictator) if he now truly condemns souls for all eternity, since it is evil to do so and against all laws, both human, natural and divine, but it won't make much difference to those that won't change position anyway.

I will end this for now and we will see what you will respond. I fear you will only respond by ignoring all my arguments, by calling me deceived and a heretic or evil etc. but calling God good or defending him, even if he damns souls, as usual.

For my previous article that she responded too, see:

Tuesday, May 14, 2019

Q&A: Answer as to why I condemn Hell and the unjust God according to conscience and follow a true justice above the unjust God's "justice"

Short introduction: You would not damn or allow your own children to be damned or tormented on earth for all eternity or even for a time in insufferable torments, neither would earthly justice accept such a thing but they would persecute you if you did such a thing and the whole world would have hated the evil you did (and many would even have hated you for the evil you did even though we should love and forgive) -- hence from this can be concluded that human justice is above God's justice on this point since no human judge or just person would condemn another human being or soul to such unmerciful torments and damnation, and it also shows that our conscience and that of others disapproves of this. However, when it comes to God, these rules are suddenly forgotten and God gets away with being an eternal dictator who condemns and allows to be condemned his own children (which is our brothers and sisters and fathers and mothers and children and neighbours) and no one says a thing and everyone just accepts it without complaining and remain silent. (Mostly atheists and such complain rightly and justly, and some Protestants who deny Hell, and also some doubting Christians, whether Catholic or Orthodox but that is about it.) Well, I will remain silent no more, but I will gladly and willingly fight for true justice and conscience, which even goes above God's own laws. No law is a just or true law if it is unjust, and who can argue against that Hell is unjust? Only pre-programmed Christians who do not dare to question God, the Bible, the Church or the Saints, will somehow excuse themselves with that Hell is just even though they themselves would never have damned anyone however much they hated each other, since they know in their conscience it is evil to wish or allow (without hindering it) eternal evil upon others!

According to Wikipedia, the "Golden Rule" (which even God himself teaches in his Bible) teaches this: "The Golden Rule is the principle of treating others as one's self would wish to be treated. It is a maxim that is found in many religions and cultures." "Therefore, whatever you want people to do for you, do the same for them, because this summarizes the Law and the Prophets." (Matthew 7:12) Too bad the hypocrite God does not follow his own rules and laws about doing good upon his own enemies and other people, such as the damned: "But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven." (Matthew 5:44-45) If you who are reading this were damned, you would not like to be damned nor would you like to remain damned, neither would you like the concept of being forced to hate. Why then do you think damnation is just, if this really is your position? What is just with being forced to hate through being tormented with insufferable torments and fire and by being deprived of all hope, happiness and love? There is no justice with Hell! Hell is evil! And a God who allows damnation or sends his own children there to be tormented forever just because he wishes so because they died in his "displeasure", is evil, not only according to me, but also according to your own and everyones conscience*, and also according to all human law and justice!

*If you and they are honest, that is, which can be hard if you fear men, "God", hell and damnation for standing up against an injustice, even if it be God that teaches this injustice. Should a man fear God or to follow his conscience or an eternal justice above God's "justice" and "conscience" when God himself teaches an obvious injustice and wishes eternal evil upon those whom we wish to see saved? No! Therefore, fear not, and neither fear damnation, for no one will be damned for wishing good upon his neighbour.

Now unto the email and my response.

Nataly Ferreira: “Doubt...and worried. Save Mary. I read the last article of the site, and I was confused and worried. Clarify my doubt, what happened to Jerome? Has He renounced true FAITH? and adhered to the Vatican ii.? Is God a bad person now? Could you please explain to me what really happened to Jerome? because I'm Brazilian and I need to translate the texts for me to understand. and I was shocked by the last article. or did I understand and misinterpret? Awaiting return.

Jerome: Would you think you were a good person if you damned your own children in the worst torments possible always and for all eternity just because you wanted to do so, and they died in your displeasure?

If you would be bad for doing such a deed of damning your children to unmerciful torments (or if you simply allowed this to happen without hindering it), why would not God also be bad? It is false and wrong and hypocritical to judge God different from yourself or from your brother and sister. If you are evil and bad for condemning and damning or allowing to be damned and tormented your own children unmercifully, then so is God.

I think I have expressed my self clearly in the previous post, but much more will be said about it in the future.

Is it really hard to believe that Mary will have Her will in the end and save all her Children? or that all children will become good in the end and hence Hell will be unnecessary? If God gave Mary power over even himself, why would She allow damnation to exist when it is an evil thing and She could will it not to be? Why would The Blessed Virgin Mary not overrule God and his Hell doctrine when a Hell is evil and unmerciful? Does a mother like Her own children to be tormented always and for all eternity? Of course not. Therefore, know for certain that there will be no Hell in the end, since Mary will claim all her children for herself and save them.

Is it hard to believe that God wants us to follow our conscience even if we get persecuted for it? or that Hell is a test to see who wants to be truly just and follow his conscience (of not wishing or desiring or accepting such eternal evils upon others), even condemning God if need to be, in order to truly follow justice and our conscience, which condemns doing evil upon others? It is not hard to see that this may be the case, since the true God is said to be in our conscience.

I know the “God” we suppose is “our God”, the Bible and the Church judges you a heretic unless you accept Hell and damnation, but is it hard to see that it would be an honor, and something honorable, if you were really condemned for this reason (not that damnation is a good thing): i.e., that you wanted to do more good than God himself and save even the damned from torments which they cannot bear? I also explained myself clearly that no one will be damned for wanting to save all souls (you may believe in this if you want), or even if you fought with God about Hell and that he must stop damning souls, since it is an evil doctrine to damn someone or let them live in unbearable torments. You know in your conscience that it is an evil thing to let others live in unhappiness, without love, without hope and with insufferable torments, such as in a sea of fire. Yet this is supposedly the punishment God allows to be inflicted upon the damned.

Why does not God himself follow the “Golden Rule” of doing good unto others, of doing unto others as he himself would like others do unto him? Does God himself want to be damned and live in eternal torments and unhappiness, or would he like to have hope?

I can easily believe that Hell is just a test. Conscience is true, and our conscience condemns a Hell or that we should be doing, allowing or wishing eternal evils upon others.

There is a reason for why God, the Bible and saints tell us to follow our conscience, or why Vatican II happened. When we are not forced anymore to strictly follow the Old Church doctrine, it is easier to follow our conscience. (The Old Church doctrine and pre-modern world restricted people from following their conscience due to the fact that they just blindly had to follow or submit to whatever the Church taught them, otherwise they would have been punished, excommunicated, or worse, burned at the stake.) If we had lived before in time, we would have been forced to embrace the Church's position on many things -- today it is different, since many other positions is being taught and embraced (even by the Church, if you accept Vatican II as the true Church, that is) and the world have become different, especially thanks to media, which have united people around the world in thinking and wishing good upon others.

In short, if God truly damns souls for all eternity in torments only because he desires this and never forgives, and if there is truly no hope, then yes, he is evil on this point without a doubt. And I think you would agree with this easily, or at least you would easily do so if I was the person who punished someone in this way, but then this only shows how people judge men different from God himself, which is hypocritical and false and against true justice -- for if you judge me evil for doing this or for punishing my brother or sister or father or mother or children in this way, then so is God evil for doing the same or worse, and I will gladly die with this opinion -- and then both you and I and God will see who is right in the judgment. I can clearly see an honor in my position, since I want to do more good then God himself since I despise eternal damnation and I wish all souls be saved from my heart -- and I suppose even you agree with this. Otherwise you judge men different from God, but doing so is unjust. To just excuse oneself with that God is God and that we just must submit and be blind, even if what he does is evil, is itself evil and wrong.

However, I do not condemn anyone as evil for not condemning God, since I understand it is a long process to make in changing position, and I also understand the fear of being damned and of loosing the grace of God, and of Mary and their friendship. But I can assure you, you will not loose their friendship if you fight against God on this point, rather, you will gain their love and especial friendship, since you show true love for their (supposedly) dammed children.

If God only made a Hell as a test in order to make people fear and serve him, that is excusable, and then he was not evil in the sense if he really wished this evil upon others, but his doctrine led to much evil nonetheless (such as bad consciences and the evil opinion that damnation is just or that it is just to torment one's own children in insufferable torments and fire just because God said so), but this Hell have also led to much good, such as people loving souls and wanting to save them from the bottom of their hearts. I can believe God wanted to make this happen, i.e, wanted to draw out this goodness in people. The thought of damnation also helps many live a more moral life, obviously.

In short: if I damned my own children or tormented them without wanting to forgive them, and without wanting to be merciful to them (such as denying them love, hope and happiness for all eternity) then you would easily and infallibly condemn me as evil, as a terrorist, as a mortal sinner, as unworthy etc. But when it comes to God himself who in actually does this to our brothers and sisters (which is his own children nonetheless!), then all is “well”, he is “good” and “holy” and “lovable”, even though, in truth, he is the worst of terrorist and a hypocrite that damns and torments his own children and allows this to happen without hindering it.

Sure, God is lovable and such, and I have experienced his sweetness and love (and still does) but his Hell doctrine have made me fall away from him considerably (with justice) since I don't find him the most worthy to receive my worship. The Blessed Virgin Mary and the Saints have taken his place, and it is Her!!, Gemma!!, Theresa!!, Rose of Lima!!, Birgitta!!, St. Philomena! and Mechtilde!, Eva!, Catharine of Sienna!, Catharine of Sweden!, Catharine of America! (the native Indian), Mary Magdalene!! (Oh Mary Magdalene, help to me to love you even more as you deserve, as I did before when I thought more of you, before I fell away from you and do not any longer think of you as much!), Saint Rita! and Zita! and Gertrude the Great!, among many others, I love and worship the most. Not that Mary was God or was for all eternity (but perhaps She is the true God or will become God by taking God's place? but has not revealed it or come to know it yet?), but I believe that Mary (or someone else who must rule in God's place -- even if this person is not God -- in order to avoid something as terrible as Hell ever to happen again) may take this so-called God's place, since God is unworthy of his Godhood or power, which he abuses. Mary is more good than even God himself (that is why it is Mary that save souls in Catholic examples, and why God shamelessly complains about how he wants to damn* this soul Mary desires to save), so wouldn't it be fitting then that God renounces his Godhood, and gives this to Mary? I think so! (As I explained in the previous article, when a person does evil in the world and is a danger to others, then is this person punished in such ways so that he can inflict no more evil upon others. For the same reason it is only just that God be entirely deprived of his powers, so that he can no more hurt anyone for all eternity by inflicting unjust punishments, such as Hell.)

*I also want to add that it is possible such scenarios recorded between God, Mary and a soul wishing to save a sinner may be a lovable play in order to make people wish and desire the salvation of souls. God may play reluctant, but in the end, he gives way to Mary's pleas and pardons the sinner that was about to be damned.

The law of conscience demands that you judge God truly and justly in the same way as you judge other men, therefore, if you follow your conscience, you would have to condemn God for the evil he does. Otherwise, you become a hypocrite.

If you believe what I have written, you can believe that God has changed his potion, and that there will be no Hell since he has admitted that he was wrong in his thought about Hell. That is one explanation I have received even from Himself, if you dare to believe in my explanation, that is. (I have also thought about that he never created Hell but only scares us with it in order to make us wish to love and save souls and live a more godly and moral life.)

It is easy to believe that God himself is or was unperfect even from the beginning, why else did he want his own children to be damned and live in insufferable torments? Why did God make such an unjust judgment as eternal damnation when all justice on earth abhors and condemns such an injustice? Is men more just than God? Hence, if God is truly just (as he claims) then it is only natural he would be converted and that he would humble himself.

It is also easy to believe that Hell would cease to exist eventually even if God did not humble himself since Mary is in Heaven, and since she is more good than God Mary would have forced God to submit in the end, since She wants to save the souls God's terrible "justice" wants to condemn. It is my belief that Mary will wish away even Hell, and that She has done so already.

Mary have received the power to overrule God for a reason, and we will see in the last judgment why that is. I believe with Origen, Hell will cease to be and that is mainly because of Mary (and those who wanted this doctrine to cease) because they will make God change his position.

But even without Mary, if God is just, he would have to humble himself also and cease condemning because it is evil to follow one's own opinion or justice above other peoples just justice. If men or men in the world don't condemn or damn forever, why would God be allowed to do so? It won't happen. God would be evil and unjust if he made himself an eternal dictator and just ignored other people's opinion about forgiveness and how to punish. If God is just, he needs to follow also human justice (in what they teach rightly), and one such justice is that one should not torment someone unmercifully. There is death penalty in the world but also hope in a good afterlife, but no torments. And even in prison, there is love, happiness, friendship, hope and a good life available to you, if you desire to live a moral life.

So no, I have not renounced the true faith but rather found it and embraced it, since the true faith, even according to God himself, is the Golden Rule and wishing (and wanting) good upon others, and forgiving others, especially our enemies! That is why I want to forgive the damned and work for their eternal salvation and happiness. I do not believe, as I explained, that the damned cannot be good or forgiven. If they hate God or can't forgive him, it is for a reason -- i.e., He rejected them and sent them to Hell. If they can't love God or God love them, then let someone else love them or give them love or be their God (such as Mary, or whomever else has won this title), and all would be well. It is absurd to think that a spirit or soul would refuse happiness and love for all eternity just because we have been taught this is the case. If this is not true with reasonable humans, why would it be true with spirits? It makes no sense. But even if this is true, my judgment would be to send them to earth again and live another life and make them receive a body. No human wants to deny love or live in torments, hence, it is easy to see why there are solutions to the damned and that they can start to love again. That is why I believe in love and forgiveness, and not in hate and God's evil damnation.

I can write much more. If there is anything, please let me know.

I hope this helps and that all is well with you, that you are happy over life (which is a gift), and that you think well about others and have hope in the afterlife with eternal happiness and joy with our beloved dear and loved ones, but also with our neighbour and brother and sister in those whom we do not yet know, but whom we will then start to know!

Sincerely, and may God Bless you!
Ville Hietanen (Jerome)


For my response to Nataly to my email, see this article:

Thursday, May 2, 2019

Why the Catholic God is Evil and Unjust. Why Hell is Evil. Why All Souls Will be Saved in the End!

If you want my immediate response, see below his question. And yes, I condemn God, Hell and also prove why all souls will be saved in the end. In short: The injustice of God (i.e., Hell) was only a test to see who would follow their conscience (of not just being God's slave by allowing him to do anything (such as eternal evil)), and who would not (i.e., those who would follow their conscience (and the golden rule of wishing good upon others as upon themselves) which says that they do not want their own children to be damned and hence, they don't want eternal damnation to exist or that anyone should be damned.)

St. Bridget's Revelations ch 41

Eli: Have you read Book 3 Chapter 26? I'm going to paste half of the chapter here in the email for the sake of convenience and highlight what I personally think are kind of problematic for EENS. It's confusing because in the same chapter our Lord affirms EENS multiple times. I would really like to know what your take on this is.

Bold: borderline heretical
Underlined: EENS

However, now I can complain that I am little praised and unknown to many people, because everyone is following his own will but few follow mine. Be you steadfast and humble, and do not exalt yourself in your mind if I show you other people's trials, and do not betray their names unless you are instructed to do so. Their trials are not shown to you to shame them but in order that they may be converted and come to know God's justice and mercy. Nor should you shun them as condemned, for even if I should say today that a certain person is wicked, should he call on me tomorrow with contrition and a will to improve, I am prepared to forgive him. And that person whom I yesterday called wicked, today, due to his contrition, I declare him to be so dear a friend of mine that if his contrition remains steadfast, I forgive him not only his sin but even remit the punishment of sin.

You might understand this with a metaphor. It is as though there were two drops of quicksilver and both were heading toward each other in haste. If nothing but a single atom remained to keep them from joining, still God would be powerful enough to prevent them from coming together. Likewise, if any sinner were so rooted in diabolical deeds that he was standing at the very brink of destruction, he could still obtain forgiveness and mercy, if he called upon God with contrition and a will to improve. Now, given that I am so merciful, you might ask why I am not merciful toward pagans and Jews, some of whom, if they were instructed in the true faith, would be ready to lay down their lives for God. My response is that I have mercy on everyone, on pagans as well as Jews, nor is any creature beyond my mercy

Edit: This I interpret as lesser punishment, not salvation.

With leniency and mercy I will judge both those people who, learning that their faith is not the true one, fervently long for the true faith, as well as those people who believe the faith they profess to be the best one, because no other faith has ever been preached to them, and who wholeheartedly do what they can.

Edit: This also, lesser punishment, not necessarily salvation.

You see, there is a double judgment, namely the one for those to be condemned and the one for those to be saved. The sentence of condemnation for Christians will have no mercy in it. To them will belong eternal punishment and shadows and a will hardened against God. The sentence for those Christians to be saved will be the vision of God and glorification in God and goodwill toward God.

Excluded from these rewards are pagans and Jews as well as bad and false Christians. Although they did not have the right faith, they did have conscience as their judge and believed that the one whom they worshipped and offended was God.
But the ones whose intention and actions were and are for justice and against sin will, along with the less bad Christians, share a punishment of mercy in the midst of sufferings due to their love of justice and their hatred of sin. However, they will not have consolation in the service of glory and of the vision of God. They will not behold him due to their lack of baptism, because some temporal circumstance or some hidden decision of God made them draw back from profitably seeking and obtaining salvation. If there was nothing that held them back from seeking the true God and being baptized, neither fear nor the effort required nor loss of goods or privileges, but only some impediment that overcame their human weakness, then I, who saw Cornelius and the centurion while they were still not baptized, know how to give them a higher and more perfect reward in accordance with their faith.

Edit: this could be interpreted as God will supernaturally supply baptism.

One thing is the ignorance of sinners, another that of those who are pious but impeded. Likewise, too, one thing is the baptism of water, another that of blood, another that of wholehearted desire.

Edit: This is where my main gripe with the chapter lies.

God, who knows the hearts of all people, knows how to take all of these circumstances into account. I am begotten without beginning, begotten eternally from the beginning. I was born in time at the end of times. From the commencement I have known how to give individual persons the rewards they deserve and I give to each according as he deserves. Not the least little good done for the glory of God will go without its reward. This is why you should give many thanks to God that you were born of Christian parents in the age of salvation, for many people have longed to obtain and see that which is offered to Christians and yet have not obtained it.”

Jerome: It seems as it speaks of baptism of desire. The Church has always spoken in favor of this doctrine, and Popes, Catechisms, Code of Canon laws, Doctors of the Church, Saints, and all Theologians, etc. have all confirmed this doctrine. Yet, along comes MHFM and denies it, and many follow their lead. I personally incline to the majorities' position, and I haver started to distance my self from positions which contradicts the majorities' position.

I can understand the argument that to think they have all been wrong - is heretical. It is prideful.

Just as protestants misinterprets the bible, so it is easy to understand that people such as MHFM misinterprets dogmas etc. Or do you think they know better then all Saints, and all Theologians? It does not matter if their arguments seem strong or sound, because protestants argument also seem strong and sound. Even so, one can believe in baptism of desire and blood without being a heretic, since this position is allowed by the Church (since it is thought in the Church!), therefore, it is evil to condemn others for adhering to this doctrine.

That is why I have started to embrace baptism of desire and blood, since it leads to more souls being saved. Hence, one can be converted at the point of death and receive the faith, if this is needed, and be saved. So pagans, atheists etc. both can and will be saved, provided they have a good will in seeking God in their heart, as this Revelation indicates.

By the way, eternal hell is evil, and since Vatican II teaches that almost all are saved, I have also started to be inclined to this position. I can honestly believe that Vatican II is not an apostasy, but enlightenment. Do you not see how utterly evil and stupid it is to call "salvation" apostasy, heresy and evil? There are bad fruits of Vatican II, but that almost all people shall be saved are not one of them. So the pre-Vatican II Church which condemns almost the whole world (if one must be Catholic in the strict sense) was good, but Vatican II which opened up salvation for the entire human race, was evil? So good is evil and evil good?

There can be nothing more evil then Hell, and to think that a "good" God created it, or sends his own children there to suffer always, is itself a mortal sin and a heresy. - This just made me think of Gnostics and their belief that God is evil. Not that I agree that he was evil for the arguments they used, but rather, it is easy to see that God is evil because of the Hell he allows to exist. Had the Gnostics condemned God because he condemns souls (because he do evil and breaks the golden law -- i.e., do good unto others as you wan't others to do good unto you) they would have won the day. I mean, how can an honest soul argue that there is justice with eternal torments? Only mislead and brainwashed souls that do not follow a justice above God's "justice", would believe that. Human justice is way more just than God's justice in many ways, and that is why God's will shall be done on earth as well as in heaven.

Who is God? He who also follows the human laws, obviously, and who is not a dictator. Hence, the God we think is God is probably not God, or was undeserving of this title. Or perhaps this true God that is truly just has not come to existence yet, or is hiding, in order to see who wants to be truly just and not just being a slave. Perhaps Mary is God, or will become God, since she already receives her will always from God. It is not heresy to call Mary God, with the belief that the "God" we think is God is already evil and undeserving. If God can do all things, then he could even loose His Godhood and give this to another being. Even human justice would strip God of all his powers and imprison him, so that he never - for all eternity - could hurt another human beings/souls again.

Believe it or not, but I have had revelations about that Hell will cease to exist (or that it has already, since the Blessed Virgin Mary willed this in cooperation with all those who also wanted this), and that God will humble himself eventually, admitting that he was evil in creating it and sending humans, souls, even small children there to be tormented always (so God is also a child abuser and child murderer! really, you cannot think enough evil of a "God" who damns souls, and you commit no sin even for condemning and hating him and the evil he has done, rather, if you don't condemn him, you may sin and become a coward, since you know in your conscience he deserves condemnation). If it is one point worthy to be condemned for, or to be called heretical for, is the position that all souls shall be saved, or that atheists or pagans shall be saved etc.

So someone condemns you for wanting souls to be saved, such as by an evil God and brainwashed Church? What an honor! We do more good than they, yet they condemn us? Hypocrites! Stop being brainwashed! Stop follow a dictator! That is why we must follow our conscience. God is also in our conscience - perhaps there is some truth to collective consciousness, or whatever those other religions teach. I can understand Vatican II's teaching that there is truth in other religions. All truths have not been understood yet, such as who the true God is. "Catholic" he is though, but only because he is truly universal! which the Catholic God is not! - Yet, I condemned Francis for making this statement, even though I now clearly see that he was right (I have much to correct on our homepages).

"Our" Catholic God is not Catholic, since he only cares about his own in the end. Why else does he not save them (the "damned"), or forgive them even if they died in a "deadly sin"? If I was God, I would do all in my power that no one would be damned, even if they died in "deadly sin". I mean it! What would be a simple solution that the criminal God did not do? He could simply look the other way and say or think to a soul: "You did not die in a deadly sin, because I do not judge the sin to be deadly in a way to deserve eternal punishments." If someone deserves punishment because they truly did evil, they could go to purgatory, which is temporal. If only a person wants, he could think of several reasons as to why God would not have to damn a soul, and why that soul could be excused instead. Yet, the dictator God did nothing of it because of his stupid own "justice", which he thinks precedes or exceeds eternal or human justice. Wrong! As on earth so in heaven! And human justice do not judge as you do.

Would you want an atheist to be damned just because he was an atheist? Or a pagan, just because he was pagan - even if he was evil? You know the truth in your conscience - you do not want this, since you do not want this evil against yourself or your own children.

There is no justice with eternal hell, and Christians have only been brainwashed to look the other way since they fear God or don't want to be damned themselves. Honor to the man that condemns God in his face and calls him evil, and that prays to Mary with all their heart that there shall be no Hell and that all shall be saved. Why does God teach that Mary always gets her Will? Because she is more merciful, and hence more just! That is why Catholic examples of souls being saved is attributed to the Virgin Mary, and not to God or Jesus, since Jesus rather often receives the eternal shame spot of having wanted to damn the soul Mary wished to save! Hence, if we pray that there will be no Hell, she will have Her Will (which is our will), even if God does not want it. Even if God is evil, The Virgin Mary is not. If God don't want the damned as his children or forgive them, we will, and we will have them as our own and they will be forgiven!

There is an honor to live one's life hating and condemning God for his evil doctrine of Hell, and not a shame. Rather, it is a shame to live one's life thinking that there is a Hell and that people deserve it, or that there is justice in it. No judge on earth would ever condemn someone to such an unjust punishment, yet God is allowed to be an eternal and evil dictator? No, won't happen. God will fall in the end, and we (who hate God because of his Hell but still wants to love him and forgive him) and the Virgin Mary will have Our Will, and She will have all her children as she desires, in happiness and salvation. That is why God gave Mary all men as her children, since God himself was unworthy of this. That is why God himself admits in his evil bible (which contains a lot of evil such as hell but also good such as golden rules which he himself don't follow) that he don't look upon the damned as his children. They where not his to be since he wanted them evil. Even on earth bad parents are deprived of their children, so we can see a justice in that God suffers a loss of not having them as his own, even though he must be loved, since without love there will only be evil.

Even you know in your conscience that I have spoken true with all what I have said above, yet if you fear, you must be led astray by the bible, and the Church to excuse God (a true and evil dictator - and who is worse than satan himself - who condemns his own children to insufferable torments for all eternity) and believe that eternal torments is just and hence condemn men. At least desire all men and souls to be saved even if you are unsure if this will be the case, and you will be doing a good deed and have a good thought.

It is evil to think that someone deserves Hell, or that there is justice in it. This is the mystery with the last judgment, that God will not have his will, but Mary will rather, and those of Her children that wanted Her will - to save all of her Children. Origen thought correct, there will be universal salvation in the end.

I hope you understand. It is an honor to be condemn by God, by the Church and the Bible over something as unjust as Hell. Think of it yourself. You fought with God and his Bible and his Church in this life because you wanted souls to be saved, and even strove to eradicate this heresy and to apply universal salvation for all, even to the most evil and "undeserving" (note: nothing can be more undeserving than eternal punishments, especially in torments, and no one deserves such punishments, since a person, however evil, needs love to become good), yet, when you come before God, you will be "damned" because you wanted more good then him? Can't you see that this is a contradiction? and that it will be God himself who will fall before your feet since you have become more just and good on this point then him! All can see that it would be evil for you to be condemned, and Mary would not allow it, because you wanted souls to be save and because you condemned an unjust God.

Follow your conscience. Your conscience do not want a Hell, or that someone deserves such a punishment (yet according to blind Saints and the evil Bible, almost all souls are damned and yet no one has ever thought anything about it but that it is just in some way, because God said so! That is why souls who blindly follow God, do not follow their conscience and why they lost on this point; and even though God made them saints, they will not be saints on this point for failing to follow their conscience). Your conscience also says that it is evil to damn and punish too much, hence, God is evil if he really hold these positions of eternal torments and insufferable torments that is so severe (according to his saints) that not even all punishments on earth can give an indication of them.

It is easy to see and believe that the doctrine of Hell was taught by God as a test to see who dared to condemn him for once and follow their conscience and not just being his slave allowing him to do and believe in anything he wills however evil, such as eternal torments for dying in even one "deadly sin", such as masturbation (if they believed it was a deadly sin, that is...) Otherwise, masturbation is not a deadly sin if you do not believe it is a deadly sin. That is how conscience works. But then there is disobedience if you don't follow the rules of the Church, if you consider yourself Catholic, since they disallow masturbation. But again, disobedience is neither a deadly sin, unless you believe it is, because men have a free will for a reason, and they can make choices to follow their free will with a good conscience.

Eli: Almost every line in this email [above] contradicts you're website. I don't know where this sudden change in heart came from but I pray that you be delivered from whatever is blinding you.

Jerome: So it is blindness to want souls to be saved? But to embrace positions which damns most souls, is to see clearly?

No, my friend, it is you do not have the courage to break free from this enslavement system that is blinding you. Vatican II is more right than you think, and in due time, they might even teach that there is no Hell or that all will be saved absolutely.

I have expressed myself clearly. The change in my heart happened because I know in my conscience that Hell is the most evil that has ever existed. A true God, a good God, cannot have created a Hell or obstinately choose to send souls there for all eternity. That is why I have come to understand that this God, is not actually the true Catholic God, since he is not universal. The true God is in our consciences, and God wants us to follow our conscience.

What happens when we follow our conscience? Then we desire good upon others, such as that all souls shall be saved. A person who follows his conscience will see that Hell is evil, and that there is something wrong with this doctrine. A person who follows his conscience, and the Golden Rule (do good unto others as you want them do unto you) will see that God, who damns souls or allows them to be damned eternally, is evil if he does not change his position, and that Hell is unjust, and that it must cease to be.

I have been told many times that the God we thought was God (or was God) has lost his Godhood place in Heaven due to this injustice and that someone more just will take his place, and that Hell has already ceased to be and that all souls will be saved, although with different degrees of glory. That all people can live like one happy family is the ultimate goal and happiness, and if even one soul would be damned, there would not be perfection.

You also understand that it is evil to condemn one's own child, and you would not do this. Yet you excuse and defend a God who obstinately damns billions of souls without reason, other than that they died in his displeasure? If I was God, I would forgive all men, and make them love. If we have all eternity, even the most evil will be converted in the end. One can always learn to love with love, but one cannot learn to love with hate and torments. That is why Hell is unjust, since it takes away all chances of being converted.

If God does not want the damned or forgive them, let me have them! I will forgive them, and save them, and let them live in happiness in my soul if God rejects them. But I am sure Mother Mary will save them, as in fact, she already has. May we all live in her Holy Womb!

[After posting the above [first] post in CathInfo, a small discussion ensued before I was finally banned. The responses posted here, or the post above in its entirety, cannot be seen in the above thread link.]

Stubborn: Very screwed up OP. :facepalm: I will just say that hell lasts forever because God, being eternal, lasts forever. Therefore, if hell did not last forever, then sinners would have beaten God, sinners would be getting away with offending God if they were to ever be let out.

Jerome: It is ironic how you call me "screwed up" because I advocate salvation for my brethren and sisters. What is screwed up with that? No, rather, what is screwed up is to defend an evil God who condemns his own children.

Did you read my post? Probably not! Read it, and see what it says, then come back with some arguments.

The argument that God wants damnation and that's it, and therefore, we must accept it, is ridiculous because you don't even want damnation to exist. You only believe in it through force.

The argument that hell lasts forever because God lasts forever is also irrelevant. I mean, what is that for excuse for damning anyone? If God don't want to forgive the damned or let them live in happiness, let me have all the damned, let me forgive them, and let them live in my soul in happiness.

Just because God lives forever, does not mean an eternal injustice must be!

Sinners have not beaten God if Hell does not exist. Rather, God would have beaten himself up if Hell exists forever, since that would mean God would be unjust. Not even one just judge on earth would damn anyone to eternal punishment for whatever crime on earth. To think that God should be a dictator and damn souls only because he wishes so - is evil to the max. No one who is just would agree with his judgment, but rather try to depose him. That is why Mary will overrule God in the end, since she will have her will.

Sinners that have been forgiven from Hell and that have become good (or if there were no Hell) will have their just punishment even without an eternal Hell, such as loss of glory in Heaven or lesser rewards than those more just. However, since Heaven exists forever, everything should be able to be gained back, and more glory should be able to be attained. Therefore, no Hell needs to exist. Even a temporal punishment, such as purgatory, would be enough, instead of a Hell.

You say God would be offended if there was no Hell and his "damned" children were released? What offense is worse, that your own children, mom or dad or best friend are condemned to Hell (as they could be), or that God would be kind and forgiver sinners from Hell? If God forgave all sinners and they become good in the end and all were friends, no offense would be taken. So you see an offense that does not exist, only because you blindly and shamelessly want to defend God and his evil hell doctrine. If you follow your own conscience (that does not wish eternal evil on anyone) however, you would be following the true God. (Saints and Theologians teach God is in our conscience. I can understand why.)

The only offense would be if there was a Hell and if people where there. Think of yourself, stubborn, what if you where damned, or your mom, or dad, or best friend, or wife or children? That is an offense. You would not wish this eternal offense on anyone, much less on those you love or know, yet you still readily acknowledge Hell without actually thinking about the consequences, or whom might end up there.

If you where damned in the end (even if you where a "sinner"), I am sure you would wish to get out and be forgiven, since you would not want to be separated from those you love or live in insufferable pain eternally. Similarly, you would not wish your own parents, wife or children to be damned. So how would God be offended if they got out of Hell, if this would be the greatest happiness in reality, since it not only makes you eternally happy and gratuitous, but also makes God happy (if they could be saved and not be unjust, even according to his own laws? since he wants all to be saved, even if they don't according to his laws).

That is why this false God will fall in the judgment and the true hidden God take his place who wants men to follow their conscience, and all damned be saved, and why Origen and others like whim who taught universal salvation will be made right. The Virgin Mary will not let this injustice of eternally damning her and our children, brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers etc. be going on, and when she understands she can have Her will on this point, she will, and God will fall. There is a reason why God obeys Mary on every point, and why God gave Mary power even over himself.

Already, there is no Hell, as I understand it, but even if there is, Hell will cease to exists at the last judgment, as others teach.

One thing is clear from your post, stubborn, and that is that you do not follow your conscience but rather breaks it by excusing God and by remaining a slave to an evil brainwashing system and doctrine that you know is evil and unjust - for Hell is certainly unjust, as all judges on earth readily would admit (excluded from this are those judges who are forced to believe in Hell by being Christians, but even so, they would never have condemned anyone themselves to such a punishment, since they know it is eternally unjust).

Stubborn: God is not evil, men are evil. Every man is born into this world bent on evil due to being born with original sin. This is elementary Catholic doctrine. As Fr. Wathen puts it: [You need to] look at things as they are and stop all this liberal star gazing and wishful thinking and return to hard reality. Last week in what we style a sermon you probably perceive that I was laboring and I felt ill at ease because I could not find the words to say what I had thinking for a number of weeks and have a little more success said in other places. The bishops are going to have to recognize that the fundamental premise and the farfetched hope and the basic inspiration of the second Vatican council were altogether false and insubstantial.

They are going to have to recognize that liberalism is intrinsically false and will not work, because beneath liberalism, the philosophical basis of liberalism, is what we call naturalism. Naturalism proclaims, among other heresies, that there is no such thing as original sin, that man is basically good, that he means well and if you let him grow up, he’ll grow up good, he’ll grow up moral, he’ll grow up to be a good fellow.

But Catholic doctrine says that man is not basically good, that he comes into the world bent on evil and if you leave him to himself, he’ll become a savage, he’ll become amoral. He’ll not only do most wicked things but he will try to justify them.

We have to recognize that this is the error of liberalism, that it wants to treat all men as if they really are not bad and that the only reason they are bad is that they are misguided, that they’re victims of circumstances and of their environment.

That they are bad because their mother, or their father, or their parents mistreated them, or because they were deprived of something, or because they didn’t get a chance to go to school with white folk and all that kind of thing. And we say that no, a man is bad because of original sin and he doesn’t mind being bad, he chooses to be bad. In other words, he cannot blame his wickedness on Adam only, because with every day that passes, he confirms the evil within himself.

At the second Vatican council they tried to say that "men are bad, that men are anti-Catholic because the Church has not treated men correctly, and if the Church approached them kindly, and with understanding and you might say with intelligence, modern public relations - they would have come into the Church instead of opposing it" and being against us in every way and distrusting it and even engaging in efforts to destroy it."

And the bishops are going to have to recognize that original sin is operative in every soul and it always will be, and that all men have to be disciplined, they have to acknowledge that by themselves they will do wicked things. And Almighty God in the Church established an authority over them and they may not like to be told what to do but they must be told what to do and they must be warned of the consequences of not doing it, and the consequences ultimately are hell fire...

Jerome: If God truly wants souls to be eternally damned, then yes, he is evil on this point, just as I would be if I choose to torment my children while living on earth with insufferable torments just because they offended me or "died" in my displeasure. All judges would condemn such an evil father, and even you would hate him (the evil he did) and the world would hate him and be shocked at how evil he was.

Even if every man on earth is bent on evil, that does not justify an eternal punishment for failing to live up to God's standard.

Stubborn, you don't want yourself, or your mom or dad or wife or children to be damned, hence, you don't even like this doctrine but only believe in it through force. Hell is evil, hell is unjust, hell is illogical. Only love can heal, not hate and eternal punishments.

Stubborn, have you even read my posts at all?

The only one I find honest so far have been Matto, who also understand that hell is sad, tragic and evil. That is why he addressed the point somehow by admitting that God could be hated for this doctrine. All others here have only looked the other way around, ignoring the points, excusing God. That is because you have been brainwashed! Instead of following your conscience, and the Golden Rule, which teaches that one wishes good upon others and that all shall be saved, you excuse God and Hell and claim this unjust punishment is somehow just, when it clearly is not.

Only when or if you yourself are damned, or those you love, will you see your folly. Not that you should be damned or will be, since no on will damned in the end, but if you where damned or someone you loved, you might quickly change position and not think God so holy or innocent anymore, if he simply allows them to stay their when you desire their salvation.

What a hypocrite God would be if he himself lived an earthly life without him knowing he was God and he ended up damned! I can only see it just that God himself must live an earthly life (and Jesus is not the same, since he knew he was God) to see whether he would succeed or fail in this earthly test, otherwise he is a hypocrite. And if he was damned, yet remain in Heaven as God, he would be an even worse hypocrite since the "damned" can't be in Heaven according to him. Even if God would have been saved does not change the point that Hell is evil and that God is unjust for not having taken steps to prevent souls from being eternally damned. Any father or mother on earth knows in their conscience that they want their children well even if they are evil or disobedient. No parent want their children to live in eternal torments. That is natural. Yet God is so unnatural, contrary to human nature, that he wants to damn his own children for all eternity... This only shows that human nature and justice is more reasonable and just than spiritual "reason", "nature" and "justice", which seems rather governed by pride, self-love and excessive love for punishing.

God's plan in the end will fail. The Blessed Virgin Mary will look into it and have Her will.

CathInfo: Sorry unknown, you are banned from using this forum! Banned for explicit blasphemy against God, and heresy. This ban is not set to expire.

Jerome: So I was banned for wanting to save souls, and God was being defended once more for condemning souls.