Why the Catholic God is Evil and Unjust. Why Hell is Evil. Why All Souls Will be Saved in the End!

If you want my immediate response, see below his question. And yes, I condemn God, Hell and also prove why all souls will be saved in the end. In short: The injustice of God (i.e., Hell) was only a test to see who would follow their conscience (of not just being God's slave by allowing him to do anything (such as eternal evil)), and who would not (i.e., those who would follow their conscience (and the golden rule of wishing good upon others as upon themselves) which says that they do not want their own children to be damned and hence, they don't want eternal damnation to exist or that anyone should be damned.)

St. Bridget's Revelations ch 41

Eli: Have you read Book 3 Chapter 26? I'm going to paste half of the chapter here in the email for the sake of convenience and highlight what I personally think are kind of problematic for EENS. It's confusing because in the same chapter our Lord affirms EENS multiple times. I would really like to know what your take on this is.

Bold: borderline heretical

Underlined: EENS

However, now I can complain that I am little praised and unknown to many people, because everyone is following his own will but few follow mine. Be you steadfast and humble, and do not exalt yourself in your mind if I show you other people's trials, and do not betray their names unless you are instructed to do so. Their trials are not shown to you to shame them but in order that they may be converted and come to know God's justice and mercy. Nor should you shun them as condemned, for even if I should say today that a certain person is wicked, should he call on me tomorrow with contrition and a will to improve, I am prepared to forgive him. And that person whom I yesterday called wicked, today, due to his contrition, I declare him to be so dear a friend of mine that if his contrition remains steadfast, I forgive him not only his sin but even remit the punishment of sin.

You might understand this with a metaphor. It is as though there were two drops of quicksilver and both were heading toward each other in haste. If nothing but a single atom remained to keep them from joining, still God would be powerful enough to prevent them from coming together. Likewise, if any sinner were so rooted in diabolical deeds that he was standing at the very brink of destruction, he could still obtain forgiveness and mercy, if he called upon God with contrition and a will to improve. Now, given that I am so merciful, you might ask why I am not merciful toward pagans and Jews, some of whom, if they were instructed in the true faith, would be ready to lay down their lives for God. My response is that I have mercy on everyone, on pagans as well as Jews, nor is any creature beyond my mercy. 

Edit: This I interpret as lesser punishment, not salvation.

With leniency and mercy I will judge both those people who, learning that their faith is not the true one, fervently long for the true faith, as well as those people who believe the faith they profess to be the best one, because no other faith has ever been preached to them, and who wholeheartedly do what they can.

Edit: This also, lesser punishment, not necessarily salvation.

You see, there is a double judgment, namely the one for those to be condemned and the one for those to be saved. The sentence of condemnation for Christians will have no mercy in it. To them will belong eternal punishment and shadows and a will hardened against God. The sentence for those Christians to be saved will be the vision of God and glorification in God and goodwill toward God.

Excluded from these rewards are pagans and Jews as well as bad and false Christians. Although they did not have the right faith, they did have conscience as their judge and believed that the one whom they worshipped and offended was God.

But the ones whose intention and actions were and are for justice and against sin will, along with the less bad Christians, share a punishment of mercy in the midst of sufferings due to their love of justice and their hatred of sin. However, they will not have consolation in the service of glory and of the vision of God. They will not behold him due to their lack of baptism, because some temporal circumstance or some hidden decision of God made them draw back from profitably seeking and obtaining salvation. If there was nothing that held them back from seeking the true God and being baptized, neither fear nor the effort required nor loss of goods or privileges, but only some impediment that overcame their human weakness, then I, who saw Cornelius and the centurion while they were still not baptized, know how to give them a higher and more perfect reward in accordance with their faith.

Edit: this could be interpreted as God will supernaturally supply baptism.

One thing is the ignorance of sinners, another that of those who are pious but impeded. Likewise, too, one thing is the baptism of water, another that of blood, another that of wholehearted desire.

Edit: This is where my main gripe with the chapter lies.

God, who knows the hearts of all people, knows how to take all of these circumstances into account. I am begotten without beginning, begotten eternally from the beginning. I was born in time at the end of times. From the commencement I have known how to give individual persons the rewards they deserve and I give to each according as he deserves. Not the least little good done for the glory of God will go without its reward. This is why you should give many thanks to God that you were born of Christian parents in the age of salvation, for many people have longed to obtain and see that which is offered to Christians and yet have not obtained it.”

Jerome: It seems as it speaks of baptism of desire. The Church has always spoken in favor of this doctrine, and Popes, Catechisms, Code of Canon laws, Doctors of the Church, Saints, and all Theologians, etc. have all confirmed this doctrine. Yet, along comes MHFM and denies it, and many follow their lead. I personally incline to the majorities' position, and I haver started to distance my self from positions which contradicts the majorities' position.

I can understand the argument that to think they have all been wrong - is heretical. It is prideful.

Just as protestants misinterprets the bible, so it is easy to understand that people such as MHFM misinterprets dogmas etc. Or do you think they know better then all Saints, and all Theologians? It does not matter if their arguments seem strong or sound, because protestants argument also seem strong and sound. Even so, one can believe in baptism of desire and blood without being a heretic, since this position is allowed by the Church (since it is thought in the Church!), therefore, it is evil to condemn others for adhering to this doctrine.

That is why I have started to embrace baptism of desire and blood, since it leads to more souls being saved. Hence, one can be converted at the point of death and receive the faith, if this is needed, and be saved. So pagans, atheists etc. both can and will be saved, provided they have a good will in seeking God in their heart, as this Revelation indicates.

By the way, eternal hell is evil, and since Vatican II teaches that almost all are saved, I have also started to be inclined to this position. I can honestly believe that Vatican II is not an apostasy, but enlightenment. Do you not see how utterly evil and stupid it is to call "salvation" apostasy, heresy and evil? There are bad fruits of Vatican II, but that almost all people shall be saved are not one of them. So the pre-Vatican II Church which condemns almost the whole world (if one must be Catholic in the strict sense) was good, but Vatican II which opened up salvation for the entire human race, was evil? So good is evil and evil good?

There can be nothing more evil then Hell, and to think that a "good" God created it, or sends his own children there to suffer always, is itself a mortal sin and a heresy. - This just made me think of Gnostics and their belief that God is evil. Not that I agree that he was evil for the arguments they used, but rather, it is easy to see that God is evil because of the Hell he allows to exist. Had the Gnostics condemned God because he condemns souls (because he do evil and breaks the golden law -- i.e., do good unto others as you wan't others to do good unto you) they would have won the day. I mean, how can an honest soul argue that there is justice with eternal torments? Only mislead and brainwashed souls that do not follow a justice above God's "justice", would believe that. Human justice is way more just than God's justice in many ways, and that is why God's will shall be done on earth as well as in heaven.

Who is God? He who also follows the human laws, obviously, and who is not a dictator. Hence, the God we think is God is probably not God, or was undeserving of this title. Or perhaps this true God that is truly just has not come to existence yet, or is hiding, in order to see who wants to be truly just and not just being a slave. Perhaps Mary is God, or will become God, since she already receives her will always from God. It is not heresy to call Mary God, with the belief that the "God" we think is God is already evil and undeserving. If God can do all things, then he could even loose His Godhood and give this to another being. Even human justice would strip God of all his powers and imprison him, so that he never - for all eternity - could hurt another human beings/souls again.

Believe it or not, but I have had revelations about that Hell will cease to exist (or that it has already, since the Blessed Virgin Mary willed this in cooperation with all those who also wanted this), and that God will humble himself eventually, admitting that he was evil in creating it and sending humans, souls, even small children there to be tormented always (so God is also a child abuser and child murderer! really, you cannot think enough evil of a "God" who damns souls, and you commit no sin even for condemning and hating him and the evil he has done, rather, if you don't condemn him, you may sin and become a coward, since you know in your conscience he deserves condemnation). If it is one point worthy to be condemned for, or to be called heretical for, is the position that all souls shall be saved, or that atheists or pagans shall be saved etc.

So someone condemns you for wanting souls to be saved, such as by an evil God and brainwashed Church? What an honor! We do more good than they, yet they condemn us? Hypocrites! Stop being brainwashed! Stop follow a dictator! That is why we must follow our conscience. God is also in our conscience - perhaps there is some truth to collective consciousness, or whatever those other religions teach. I can understand Vatican II's teaching that there is truth in other religions. All truths have not been understood yet, such as who the true God is. "Catholic" he is though, but only because he is truly universal! which the Catholic God is not! - Yet, I condemned Francis for making this statement, even though I now clearly see that he was right (I have much to correct on our homepages).

"Our" Catholic God is not Catholic, since he only cares about his own in the end. Why else does he not save them (the "damned"), or forgive them even if they died in a "deadly sin"? If I was God, I would do all in my power that no one would be damned, even if they died in "deadly sin". I mean it! What would be a simple solution that the criminal God did not do? He could simply look the other way and say or think to a soul: "You did not die in a deadly sin, because I do not judge the sin to be deadly in a way to deserve eternal punishments." If someone deserves punishment because they truly did evil, they could go to purgatory, which is temporal. If only a person wants, he could think of several reasons as to why God would not have to damn a soul, and why that soul could be excused instead. Yet, the dictator God did nothing of it because of his stupid own "justice", which he thinks precedes or exceeds eternal or human justice. Wrong! As on earth so in heaven! And human justice do not judge as you do.

Would you want an atheist to be damned just because he was an atheist? Or a pagan, just because he was pagan - even if he was evil? You know the truth in your conscience - you do not want this, since you do not want this evil against yourself or your own children.

There is no justice with eternal hell, and Christians have only been brainwashed to look the other way since they fear God or don't want to be damned themselves. Honor to the man that condemns God in his face and calls him evil, and that prays to Mary with all their heart that there shall be no Hell and that all shall be saved. Why does God teach that Mary always gets her Will? Because she is more merciful, and hence more just! That is why Catholic examples of souls being saved is attributed to the Virgin Mary, and not to God or Jesus, since Jesus rather often receives the eternal shame spot of having wanted to damn the soul Mary wished to save! Hence, if we pray that there will be no Hell, she will have Her Will (which is our will), even if God does not want it. Even if God is evil, The Virgin Mary is not. If God don't want the damned as his children or forgive them, we will, and we will have them as our own and they will be forgiven!

There is an honor to live one's life hating and condemning God for his evil doctrine of Hell, and not a shame. Rather, it is a shame to live one's life thinking that there is a Hell and that people deserve it, or that there is justice in it. No judge on earth would ever condemn someone to such an unjust punishment, yet God is allowed to be an eternal and evil dictator? No, won't happen. God will fall in the end, and we (who hate God because of his Hell but still wants to love him and forgive him) and the Virgin Mary will have Our Will, and She will have all her children as she desires, in happiness and salvation. That is why God gave Mary all men as her children, since God himself was unworthy of this. That is why God himself admits in his evil bible (which contains a lot of evil such as hell but also good such as golden rules which he himself don't follow) that he don't look upon the damned as his children. They where not his to be since he wanted them evil. Even on earth bad parents are deprived of their children, so we can see a justice in that God suffers a loss of not having them as his own, even though he must be loved, since without love there will only be evil.

Even you know in your conscience that I have spoken true with all what I have said above, yet if you fear, you must be led astray by the bible, and the Church to excuse God (a true and evil dictator - and who is worse than satan himself - who condemns his own children to insufferable torments for all eternity) and believe that eternal torments is just and hence condemn men. At least desire all men and souls to be saved even if you are unsure if this will be the case, and you will be doing a good deed and have a good thought.

It is evil to think that someone deserves Hell, or that there is justice in it. This is the mystery with the last judgment, that God will not have his will, but Mary will rather, and those of Her children that wanted Her will - to save all of her Children. Origen thought correct, there will be universal salvation in the end.

I hope you understand. It is an honor to be condemn by God, by the Church and the Bible over something as unjust as Hell. Think of it yourself. You fought with God and his Bible and his Church in this life because you wanted souls to be saved, and even strove to eradicate this heresy and to apply universal salvation for all, even to the most evil and "undeserving" (note: nothing can be more undeserving than eternal punishments, especially in torments, and no one deserves such punishments, since a person, however evil, needs love to become good), yet, when you come before God, you will be "damned" because you wanted more good then him? Can't you see that this is a contradiction? and that it will be God himself who will fall before your feet since you have become more just and good on this point then him! All can see that it would be evil for you to be condemned, and Mary would not allow it, because you wanted souls to be save and because you condemned an unjust God.

Follow your conscience. Your conscience do not want a Hell, or that someone deserves such a punishment (yet according to blind Saints and the evil Bible, almost all souls are damned and yet no one has ever thought anything about it but that it is just in some way, because God said so! That is why souls who blindly follow God, do not follow their conscience and why they lost on this point; and even though God made them saints, they will not be saints on this point for failing to follow their conscience). Your conscience also says that it is evil to damn and punish too much, hence, God is evil if he really hold these positions of eternal torments and insufferable torments that is so severe (according to his saints) that not even all punishments on earth can give an indication of them.

It is easy to see and believe that the doctrine of Hell was taught by God as a test to see who dared to condemn him for once and follow their conscience and not just being his slave allowing him to do and believe in anything he wills however evil, such as eternal torments for dying in even one "deadly sin", such as masturbation (if they believed it was a deadly sin, that is...) Otherwise, masturbation is not a deadly sin if you do not believe it is a deadly sin. That is how conscience works. But then there is disobedience if you don't follow the rules of the Church, if you consider yourself Catholic, since they disallow masturbation. But again, disobedience is neither a deadly sin, unless you believe it is, because men have a free will for a reason, and they can make choices to follow their free will with a good conscience.

Eli: Almost every line in this email [above] contradicts you're website. I don't know where this sudden change in heart came from but I pray that you be delivered from whatever is blinding you.

Jerome: So it is blindness to want souls to be saved? But to embrace positions which damns most souls, is to see clearly?

No, my friend, it is you do not have the courage to break free from this enslavement system that is blinding you. Vatican II is more right than you think, and in due time, they might even teach that there is no Hell or that all will be saved absolutely.

I have expressed myself clearly. The change in my heart happened because I know in my conscience that Hell is the most evil that has ever existed. A true God, a good God, cannot have created a Hell or obstinately choose to send souls there for all eternity. That is why I have come to understand that this God, is not actually the true Catholic God, since he is not universal. The true God is in our consciences, and God wants us to follow our conscience.

What happens when we follow our conscience? Then we desire good upon others, such as that all souls shall be saved. A person who follows his conscience will see that Hell is evil, and that there is something wrong with this doctrine. A person who follows his conscience, and the Golden Rule (do good unto others as you want them do unto you) will see that God, who damns souls or allows them to be damned eternally, is evil if he does not change his position, and that Hell is unjust, and that it must cease to be.

I have been told many times that the God we thought was God (or was God) has lost his Godhood place in Heaven due to this injustice and that someone more just will take his place, and that Hell has already ceased to be and that all souls will be saved, although with different degrees of glory. That all people can live like one happy family is the ultimate goal and happiness, and if even one soul would be damned, there would not be perfection.

You also understand that it is evil to condemn one's own child, and you would not do this. Yet you excuse and defend a God who obstinately damns billions of souls without reason, other than that they died in his displeasure? If I was God, I would forgive all men, and make them love. If we have all eternity, even the most evil will be converted in the end. One can always learn to love with love, but one cannot learn to love with hate and torments. That is why Hell is unjust, since it takes away all chances of being converted.

If God does not want the damned or forgive them, let me have them! I will forgive them, and save them, and let them live in happiness in my soul if God rejects them. But I am sure Mother Mary will save them, as in fact, she already has. May we all live in her Holy Womb!

https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/why-the-catholic-god-is-evil-and-unjust-why-hell-is-evil

[After posting the above [first] post in CathInfo, a small discussion ensued before I was finally banned. The responses posted here, or the post above in its entirety, cannot be seen in the above thread link.]

Stubborn: Very screwed up OP. :facepalm: I will just say that hell lasts forever because God, being eternal, lasts forever. Therefore, if hell did not last forever, then sinners would have beaten God, sinners would be getting away with offending God if they were to ever be let out.

Jerome: It is ironic how you call me "screwed up" because I advocate salvation for my brethren and sisters. What is screwed up with that? No, rather, what is screwed up is to defend an evil God who condemns his own children.

Did you read my post? Probably not! Read it, and see what it says, then come back with some arguments.

The argument that God wants damnation and that's it, and therefore, we must accept it, is ridiculous because you don't even want damnation to exist. You only believe in it through force.

The argument that hell lasts forever because God lasts forever is also irrelevant. I mean, what is that for excuse for damning anyone? If God don't want to forgive the damned or let them live in happiness, let me have all the damned, let me forgive them, and let them live in my soul in happiness.

Just because God lives forever, does not mean an eternal injustice must be!

Sinners have not beaten God if Hell does not exist. Rather, God would have beaten himself up if Hell exists forever, since that would mean God would be unjust. Not even one just judge on earth would damn anyone to eternal punishment for whatever crime on earth. To think that God should be a dictator and damn souls only because he wishes so - is evil to the max. No one who is just would agree with his judgment, but rather try to depose him. That is why Mary will overrule God in the end, since she will have her will.

Sinners that have been forgiven from Hell and that have become good (or if there were no Hell) will have their just punishment even without an eternal Hell, such as loss of glory in Heaven or lesser rewards than those more just. However, since Heaven exists forever, everything should be able to be gained back, and more glory should be able to be attained. Therefore, no Hell needs to exist. Even a temporal punishment, such as purgatory, would be enough, instead of a Hell.

You say God would be offended if there was no Hell and his "damned" children were released? What offense is worse, that your own children, mom or dad or best friend are condemned to Hell (as they could be), or that God would be kind and forgiver sinners from Hell? If God forgave all sinners and they become good in the end and all were friends, no offense would be taken. So you see an offense that does not exist, only because you blindly and shamelessly want to defend God and his evil hell doctrine. If you follow your own conscience (that does not wish eternal evil on anyone) however, you would be following the true God. (Saints and Theologians teach God is in our conscience. I can understand why.)

The only offense would be if there was a Hell and if people where there. Think of yourself, stubborn, what if you where damned, or your mom, or dad, or best friend, or wife or children? That is an offense. You would not wish this eternal offense on anyone, much less on those you love or know, yet you still readily acknowledge Hell without actually thinking about the consequences, or whom might end up there.

If you where damned in the end (even if you where a "sinner"), I am sure you would wish to get out and be forgiven, since you would not want to be separated from those you love or live in insufferable pain eternally. Similarly, you would not wish your own parents, wife or children to be damned. So how would God be offended if they got out of Hell, if this would be the greatest happiness in reality, since it not only makes you eternally happy and gratuitous, but also makes God happy (if they could be saved and not be unjust, even according to his own laws? since he wants all to be saved, even if they don't according to his laws).

That is why this false God will fall in the judgment and the true hidden God take his place who wants men to follow their conscience, and all damned be saved, and why Origen and others like whim who taught universal salvation will be made right. The Virgin Mary will not let this injustice of eternally damning her and our children, brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers etc. be going on, and when she understands she can have Her will on this point, she will, and God will fall. There is a reason why God obeys Mary on every point, and why God gave Mary power even over himself.

Already, there is no Hell, as I understand it, but even if there is, Hell will cease to exists at the last judgment, as others teach.

One thing is clear from your post, stubborn, and that is that you do not follow your conscience but rather breaks it by excusing God and by remaining a slave to an evil brainwashing system and doctrine that you know is evil and unjust - for Hell is certainly unjust, as all judges on earth readily would admit (excluded from this are those judges who are forced to believe in Hell by being Christians, but even so, they would never have condemned anyone themselves to such a punishment, since they know it is eternally unjust).

Stubborn: God is not evil, men are evil. Every man is born into this world bent on evil due to being born with original sin. This is elementary Catholic doctrine. As Fr. Wathen puts it: [You need to] look at things as they are and stop all this liberal star gazing and wishful thinking and return to hard reality. Last week in what we style a sermon you probably perceive that I was laboring and I felt ill at ease because I could not find the words to say what I had thinking for a number of weeks and have a little more success said in other places. The bishops are going to have to recognize that the fundamental premise and the farfetched hope and the basic inspiration of the second Vatican council were altogether false and insubstantial.

They are going to have to recognize that liberalism is intrinsically false and will not work, because beneath liberalism, the philosophical basis of liberalism, is what we call naturalism. Naturalism proclaims, among other heresies, that there is no such thing as original sin, that man is basically good, that he means well and if you let him grow up, he’ll grow up good, he’ll grow up moral, he’ll grow up to be a good fellow.

But Catholic doctrine says that man is not basically good, that he comes into the world bent on evil and if you leave him to himself, he’ll become a savage, he’ll become amoral. He’ll not only do most wicked things but he will try to justify them.

We have to recognize that this is the error of liberalism, that it wants to treat all men as if they really are not bad and that the only reason they are bad is that they are misguided, that they’re victims of circumstances and of their environment.

That they are bad because their mother, or their father, or their parents mistreated them, or because they were deprived of something, or because they didn’t get a chance to go to school with white folk and all that kind of thing. And we say that no, a man is bad because of original sin and he doesn’t mind being bad, he chooses to be bad. In other words, he cannot blame his wickedness on Adam only, because with every day that passes, he confirms the evil within himself.

At the second Vatican council they tried to say that "men are bad, that men are anti-Catholic because the Church has not treated men correctly, and if the Church approached them kindly, and with understanding and you might say with intelligence, modern public relations - they would have come into the Church instead of opposing it" and being against us in every way and distrusting it and even engaging in efforts to destroy it."

And the bishops are going to have to recognize that original sin is operative in every soul and it always will be, and that all men have to be disciplined, they have to acknowledge that by themselves they will do wicked things. And Almighty God in the Church established an authority over them and they may not like to be told what to do but they must be told what to do and they must be warned of the consequences of not doing it, and the consequences ultimately are hell fire...

Jerome: If God truly wants souls to be eternally damned, then yes, he is evil on this point, just as I would be if I choose to torment my children while living on earth with insufferable torments just because they offended me or "died" in my displeasure. All judges would condemn such an evil father, and even you would hate him (the evil he did) and the world would hate him and be shocked at how evil he was.

Even if every man on earth is bent on evil, that does not justify an eternal punishment for failing to live up to God's standard.

Stubborn, you don't want yourself, or your mom or dad or wife or children to be damned, hence, you don't even like this doctrine but only believe in it through force. Hell is evil, hell is unjust, hell is illogical. Only love can heal, not hate and eternal punishments.

Stubborn, have you even read my posts at all?

The only one I find honest so far have been Matto, who also understand that hell is sad, tragic and evil. That is why he addressed the point somehow by admitting that God could be hated for this doctrine. All others here have only looked the other way around, ignoring the points, excusing God. That is because you have been brainwashed! Instead of following your conscience, and the Golden Rule, which teaches that one wishes good upon others and that all shall be saved, you excuse God and Hell and claim this unjust punishment is somehow just, when it clearly is not.

Only when or if you yourself are damned, or those you love, will you see your folly. Not that you should be damned or will be, since no on will damned in the end, but if you where damned or someone you loved, you might quickly change position and not think God so holy or innocent anymore, if he simply allows them to stay their when you desire their salvation.

What a hypocrite God would be if he himself lived an earthly life without him knowing he was God and he ended up damned! I can only see it just that God himself must live an earthly life (and Jesus is not the same, since he knew he was God) to see whether he would succeed or fail in this earthly test, otherwise he is a hypocrite. And if he was damned, yet remain in Heaven as God, he would be an even worse hypocrite since the "damned" can't be in Heaven according to him. Even if God would have been saved does not change the point that Hell is evil and that God is unjust for not having taken steps to prevent souls from being eternally damned. Any father or mother on earth knows in their conscience that they want their children well even if they are evil or disobedient. No parent want their children to live in eternal torments. That is natural. Yet God is so unnatural, contrary to human nature, that he wants to damn his own children for all eternity... This only shows that human nature and justice is more reasonable and just than spiritual "reason", "nature" and "justice", which seems rather governed by pride, self-love and excessive love for punishing.

God's plan in the end will fail. The Blessed Virgin Mary will look into it and have Her will.

CathInfo: Sorry unknown, you are banned from using this forum! Banned for explicit blasphemy against God, and heresy. This ban is not set to expire.

Jerome: So I was banned for wanting to save souls, and God was being defended once more for condemning souls.