For those who are interested in seeing me debate with a free thinking Traditionalist (note: he is not an Ibranyi adherent, as I previously wrongly stated), please read this conversation.
What is going on here?
Hi there!
I have followed on
and off your website http://www.trusaint.com/
for several years, which has supplied some interesting information on
various Catholic topics.
I personally am a
Catholic Freethinker, so I am not aligned to just one particular
group or way of thinking.
I study topics of
interest and absorb what is useful and discard what is not.
The thing that
confuses me is that it appears you have done a complete turnaround
from Traditional to Liberal minded Catholicism.
What has happened
here? Has your website been hijacked?
Please explain.
Many thanks.
Best regards,
Ivan
Jerome answers: No, I am Ville
and I am the same person as before. My brother, however, is just as
obstinate as before and he seems to think almost everyone is damned,
including everyone who believes or thinks kissing for sensual
pleasure is lawful etc. Do you see now why I changed belief? I
refused to be brainwashed by him anymore.
And to explain shortly again as to why
I have changed position, that is because damnation is evil, and if
you where damned, I would fight for all eternity for your release and
salvation. Do you know why? That is, again, because damnation is
evil, and because no one wants to be actually damned, but we all want
to be happy and live in happiness, why then Believe in or follow
damnation?
Therefore, I have embraced Vatican II,
which also shares my view and also embraces Universal Salvation. The
Church has changed view for a reason, and that is because God has
changed position himself. Do you know why? That is because he was
wrong on damnation.
God tells us to follow the Church and
what they teach, and that is what I am doing. What are you doing?
Would you just let your mother or father or best friend be damned,
only because one God wanted this and forced them to be even though
they don't really want this? No, of course not. Please answer
honestly.
I hope you understand better my
position now.
Sincerely,
Ville Hietanen.
P.S.
Read the blog articles also, since they
explain the situation even better.
--
It is recommended that you pray the
following prayers everyday (print them out and pray everyday!) for
guidance and light in your daily life. They are very powerful and you
may be assured of quickly gaining the help you are looking for. I can
attest to this from personal experience:
http://against-all-heresies-and-errors.blogspot.com/2017/07/jesus-mary-joseph.html
(JESUS, MARY, JOSEPH! (prayer with a seven years indulgence for
each recital!))
Hi Ville!
I thank you very
much for your prompt reply. I appreciate this very much regardless of
whether or not we share any of the same views.
I simply have
found it very difficult as of recently to find much charity when I
have attempted contacting some Catholic websites. They either do not
answer at all, or respond quickly with only a basic response without
answering all questions, then to never respond again. Others may take
a couple of weeks in responding, which causes great frustration.
As mentioned in my
original email to you I am a Catholic Freethinker, and I think this
bothers many parties because all they want to do is to scare people
into thinking that everyone else is wrong and that they are right, so
they can maintain a healthy business of selling their propaganda such
as books, dvds etc .
Due to me being a
Traditionalist of the Sedevacantist type, I certainly am able to see
big problems in the Catholic Church in regards to moral or dogmatic
issues. No two Traditionalists can seem to agree on all topics, they
simply accuse each other of heresy at every point of the way. This is
disgusting.
You mentioned the
issue of sensual kissing. I personally cannot believe that after 2000
years this very basic moral issue has not been sorted, causing many
couples to have scruples in regards to sex in general. We were all
born into this world through sex except Jesus Himself.
In regards to what
sexual acts are allowed in marriage the simple answer should be to
simply imagine the parents of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Saints Anne
and Joachim. I am certain they never had any scruples in regards to
sex, as they would have regarded it as a holy act, but I am 100
percent sure they did not defile the marriage bed with things such as
the unholy acts of oral sex or anal sex. Simple Chastity logic.
As for Universal
Salvation, I am not going to argue against any of your beliefs. I
simply wish to inspire you with the ability to be a Freethinker. I
simply look forward to the Catholic Church being resurrected from the
dead according to the many hundreds of prophecies which talk about
this happening. There will arise both a Great Catholic Monarch and
Angelic Shepherd (True Pope). I encourage you to study these
prophecies, as there is mention of a great Vatican Council (Vatican
3) which will once and for all settle all disputes. ” Roma locuta;
causa finita est” – Saint Augustine.
Till then as the
great martial artist Bruce Lee stated, “Research your own
experience. Absorb what is useful, reject what is useless, add what
is essentially your own.”
Best regards,
Ivan
Jerome answers: Hi Ivan, thanks
for your reply. You talk about people not answering questions and
being happy about me answering yours (I always try to answer
questions, since I am not afraid to know the truth and debating
arguments) but while I did answer questions, you did not answer mine.
I asked you specifically this question:
"God tells us to follow the Church and what they teach, and that
is what I am doing. What are you doing? Would you just let your
mother or father or best friend be damned, only because one God
wanted this and forced them to be even though they don't really want
this? No, of course not. Please answer honestly. I hope you
understand better my position now." I also clearly made my point
on Vatican II known to you, but you never address what you think of
Vatican II clearly, if you reject or accept them.
Also, you seem to have indicated that
you agree with Markus on sexual issues, such as that simple kisses or
touches damns someone? You did not say this directly, but indicated
this. If this is your position, this is dusting [disgusting].
You said the Church has sorted out the
issue on sexual morality during the past 2000 years. This is not true
if you only adhere to the old Church, because they where wrong on
many believes, as we can see on the issue with damnation and eternal
separation of loved ones only because one obstinate God wanted this.
Also, did you know that St. Alphonsus himself approves of sensual
kisses and touches whereas Markus obstinately still condemns them,
even damning St. Alphonsus to hell for contradicting him? Yes, that
is how unreasonable Markus is.
If the issue of sexuality was clear
since the 2000 years, St. Alphonsus would not have spoken as he did,
if now all the Fathers was right. No, the truth is that almost no one
ever listened to those harsh teachings of the fathers (as can be seen
with Alphonsus and all other sources he sites and other theologians
of the time and earlier and after), because most people knew they
where wrong teachings. Sexuality is not as sinful or bad as they
portrayed it, as if sexuality which God gave mankind was such a
source of eternal temptation leading to damnation.
With regards to oral sex and anal sex.
Yes, Anna and Joachim are the ideal of holy sex, and I too can't
imagine them having done such acts. But that really has nothing to do
with what others do or do not do in their sex acts. As for my own
opinion and that of Vatican II, these acts are not sinful if you have
a good conscience about them. That is just how the law of conscience
works. You will not commit sin with acts that are not sinful in
themselves if you believe they are right to do; and these acts are
not evil in themselves, since they are about loving and giving love
and pleasure to the other spouse you love. And that is all.
Also, if these acts where sinful and
damnable even though there is nothing evil in them except a possible
transgression against one God, then it would mean most humanity would
be damned, since either most perform these acts or at least, believe
they can be performed if people like them [the acts]. So, would most
people be damned over these issues that in themselves are not evil or
sinful only because one God wants this? or is it more possible, as
the Church teaches, they are permitted provided the spouses have a
good conscience [and they desire to perform those acts], and that God
does not judge them as sinful, since he understands the world is not
the same anymore.
Also, the law of cleanliness is also
the reason for why these acts have become accepted [by society] in
other ways than before. Before in time, it was dirty even to kiss
since the hygiene was not the same as today. That is why people do
things today that before, would have repulsed most people, due to not
being as clean as today.
I simply refuse to believe in the harsh
God that damn the whole of humanity for committing acts that in
themselves are not sinful [or evil] in themselves, but are even love,
only because he felt offended. No, God, change your views instead.
And that is also what he has done, not only according to me, but
according to the Church, that also changes views or positions, or, if
you want to see it that way, interprets them better.
I will await your response.
Good day, and may the Blessed Virgin
Mary Bless you.
Sincerely,
Ville Hietanen
Hi Ville!
I am a simple man,
not a Catholic apologist. I do not have my own Catholic website where
I espouse my beliefs, hence, I am not looking at arguing any point of
view.
I am merely being
polite in answering your questions as a Catholic Freethinker, not as
an expert. For this reason, I will be recommending you to study what
others have said on various topics of interest as I do not have the
brilliant intellect of some individuals.
I am as already
mentioned a Catholic Freethinker, who studies what others have to say
on various moral or dogmatic issues. From my studies I have seen that
no group of those who hold the name Catholic can seem to agree with
anything in a unanimous manner.
Your brother
Markus falls exactly into the category of having his own Traditional
Catholic mini cult, because he is adamant that all of his views are
correct. Instead of you yourself absorbing what is wise and true in
regards to what he has written and believes on certain topics, you
have totally rejected some of his wisdom on for example Why Hell is
Eternal. Thus you have created your own Liberal Catholic mini cult.
In regards to
sensual kissing, I stated the following in my previous email:
“You mentioned
the issue of sensual kissing. I personally cannot believe that after
2000 years this very basic moral issue has not been sorted, causing
many couples to have scruples in regards to sex in general. We were
all born into this world through sex except Jesus Himself. “
I believe a man
who has addressed sexual pleasure in a very level headed manner is
Richard Ibranyi. It doesn’t mean that I agree with Mr. Ibranyi on
all his other subjects he has written about, but on sexual pleasure,
I believe he has done a very good job which explains things such as
kissing, touches etc.
See and read his
link below.
http://www.johnthebaptist.us/jbw_english/documents/books/rjmi/br68_when_sexual_pleasure_is_good.pdf
[I advice no one to read his material. You have been warned! Also,
see our article: http://www.trusaint.com/richard-ibranyi-exposed/]
Hence, I do not
agree with your brother Markus on every issue, as I believe Mr.
Ibranyi has done a much better common sense analysis on sexual
pleasure.
As for Vatican 2,
well if I stated in my previous email that I was a “Traditionalist
of the Sedevacantist type”, this should be enough for you to
understand that I do not agree with Vatican 2.
When I mentioned
that in prophecies of the future, that there will be an Angelic
Shepherd and Vatican Council 3 that will resolve “once and for all
settle all disputes”; what does this mean to you?
Are you ignoring
the hundreds of prophecies by Saints, Blesseds, Venerables and other
pious Catholic souls who talk about this occurrence?
When Vatican 3
condemns Vatican 2 as false, are you still going to be obstinate in
holding opposing views, or will you accept it that God has changed
his mind again to be more Traditional?
Other people will
simply declare you a heretic, but I declare you in my manner of speak
as a sailor in search of the Promised Land. Keep searching and
looking.
You do not know
everything, as neither do I, however, learn from what other people
have stated in regards to various topics of interest. They may be
right on some topics but on others wrong, but do not reject them
totally simply because it doesn’t suit your agenda.
Long live
freethinking!
Cheers!
Best regards,
Ivan
Jerome answers: Ivan, even if
you don't own a website, you can still answer questions. But I
digress.
Concerning what others say, I am well
aware of that, and this is also why I have taken another approach of
justice, and not merely obedience to a God or person. This is
why my position entails justice, rather than obedience to
someone.
Yes, my brother Markus have fallen into
Cultism, and that is his problem: pride. He thinks he is right above
everyone else or most people, even Alphonsus himself, whom he really
would consider as damned (he told me this my self) if he really did
teach those things on kisses and touches (which Alphonsus did teach),
but in his ignorance, Markus denies it, because otherwise, he would
have to condemn him.
As you say, I try to be wise and as
yourself, being a freethinker or rather, a person of justice
who adhere to justice rather than obedience, because if only
obedience is followed, then the more important aspect of justice
is ignored. And that is the point: i.e., justice, and not
merely slaving after a person or a God. Because god certainly has not
been just on Hell, just as Hitler was not just
on his evil concentration camps [and murder]. Yet Hell is far worse
and infinitely so than simply a concentration camp. Why then imagine
that god was good or just on this point? He was not.
I reject Hell because it is unjust,
and also, because God claims to follow justice, hence, we who
reject Hell and advocate forgiveness and salvation, must be right
even above god, and God wrong. So who would be right in his judgment,
when he [God] want to condemn and we forgive. Hence, I am confident
God will humble himself and admit to being wrong [in the day of
judgement], and god, in fact, has told me this many times, i.e., that
he was wrong and that men in the world, such as his Church, has
changed their views. (There is a reason for why God told us to
adhere to the Church, and why he himself also adheres to it, because
God at least was humble enough to understand men's opinion and
justice may differ from his.)
It would be more straightforward if you
just admitted to adhering to the Church and Alphonsus on the topic of
sexual ethics or not, and not just claiming to adhere to Ibranyi. For
Ibranyi is not the Church, but Vatican II, which expands on
Alphonsus, is.
You stated: “When I mentioned that
in prophecies of the future, that there will be an Angelic Shepherd
and Vatican Council 3 that will resolve “once and for all settle
all disputes”; what does this mean to you?” This can be
interpreted differently, such as that Vatican II is this council.
Also, prophecies does not really matter [above justice], only justice
matter, because a prophecy does not deny justice [or may not deny
justice], or precede it. God may be God or claim to be, but if he is
not just, he will fall. This is what everything must be judged
after [justice], and not prophecy, or God, or teachings which
are evil.
You wrote: “Are you ignoring the
hundreds of prophecies by Saints, Blesseds, Venerables and other
pious Catholic souls who talk about this occurrence?” No, I am
not ignoring everything, but when you ask, I am asking you, why are
you ignoring God's own words to follow the Church. That is God's own
words. These words you are referring to, are only words of saints
that doesn't really change anything, and as Ibranyi loves to stress,
they are not infallible.
Besides, what if Vatican II was this
council that they where referring to? Otherwise, my own personal
opinion may be that a new council in the future may be convened to
condemn even harsher and clearer the heresy of Hell and oppression as
was taught previously in the Church. This has not been done yet to
the full extent as I have done it. Hence, much more is needed to be
done by the Church.
Also, even if the saints are right in
their words, this does not
make it right, because the Saints where merely slaving after
God, and tragically, they did not even fight against God for the
salvation of every brother and sister that has ever lived, but they
only – as blinded slaves (sadly) like with Hitler and his blinded
slaves – follow his evil whatever he teaches. No, this is not how
true justice works. True justice teaches forgiveness and
salvation for everyone, and not evil damnation and nothing can change
this fact. No prophecy, no God, no teaching or law can make that
which is inherently evil and unjust and unrighteous become good,
right or noble or just, simply because it is not.
I also want to point out that even
though the saints did not fight against God, they still did not like
damnation and they did all in their power in life to help souls
escape Hell. Hence they where good souls, although, brainwashed just
like the Germans was with Hitler, whom they also followed into evil
(not all of them did, but many of them did... but did this make it
right, because they obeyed? No, certainly not, because obedience to
someone is not justice or goodness if justice
and goodness is not followed).
You wrote: “When Vatican 3
condemns Vatican 2 as false, are you still going to be obstinate in
holding opposing views, or will you accept it that God has changed
his mind again to be more Traditional?” Yes I will if they
condemn justice. That is again, because justice is to be
followed, and not men or god. If God be not
truly just, God will fall, and someone better
take his place? Do you believe in this? I certainly do!
Vatican II teaches more justice than
any previous version of the Catholic Church, so no one can actually
condemn them, unless they be even more just than they. Do you agree
with this? And again, slaving after God and his evil Hell is not
justice, but in fact, the greatest injustice
that has ever existed.
So declare me heretical as much as you
like, whoever you are, even a future so-called unjust Catholic
council. In heaven, we will see who was right, and who will be
rewarded for having actually followed justice, and not only having
slaved after god like a man who is afraid to think of something
better for others and himself, when better opinions are available.
[Like creating a prison with the possibility of parole and
forgiveness instead of an evil Hell in which no forgiveness or
possibility of betterment ever existed...]
In heaven, I will be the friend and
lover of the damned, whereas everyone else will stand with shame for
not having wanted to save them! Think about that.
And yes, I do not know everything as
you stated, but this I know: Justice. And justice must always
be followed, even if a God damns and condemns you for it. [Do you
agree with this?] Would you dare to make this move? I have...
Cheers to you too!
Best regards,
Ville
P.S.
Have you read this and subsequent
articles? I really advise you to do so, since this would make my
position and justice (which fights against god's injustice) more
clear to you.
Please read it:
Hi Ville!
It has come time
for us to part ways. This will be my final communication, as you
believe in the complete opposite of God, thus you are a type of
Anti-Christ.
You yourself know
that you are an explicit heretic for denying the existence of Hell. I
am not saying you will end up in Hell, as I am hopeful that you will
eventually convert faithfully to Catholic Tradition.
I am certain that
God gives everyone at least one chance to convert to the true Faith,
and that he will either send a preacher directly, or deliver what is
required in a miraculous way, such as Mary of Agreda bilocating to
Indians of North America.
https://www.traditioninaction.org/History/B_014_Agreda_2.html
As for sexual
ethics Richard Ibranyi has explained it much better than anyone else.
He is not heretical in this regard. If you had read his article he
explained it in a very logical way, countering the extreme right and
extreme left.
In regards to the
dispute between your brother Markus and yourself, who is closer to
God? I would judge it to be Markus as he at least tries to make sense
of this current Church crisis. Markus if you read this, do not
condemn everything that other Traditionalists have written, as they
may have discovered problems and issues which you have not. If for
example, you don’t like Mr. Ibranyi for whatever reason, please
remember that in every mad man there is a genius. Ibranyi for example
has discovered heretical items in the 1917 Code of Canon Law, thus
you cannot dismiss him totally.
http://www.johnthebaptist.us/jbw_english/documents/books/rjmi/br15_bad%20Laws_in_1917_Code.pdf
[I advice no one to read his material. You have been warned! Also,
see our article: http://www.trusaint.com/richard-ibranyi-exposed/]
This terrible
monster called Vatican 2, did not simply arise all of a sudden and
exploded onto the world scene. Rather it was many centuries in the
making. The Church has had problems with heresies for a very long
time. So once again, I implore you Markus to give Ibranyi a fair go
by studying his deep analysis of what has gone wrong in these past
1000 years or so, of the Great Apostasy.
http://www.johnthebaptist.us/jbw_english/documents/books/rjmi/br63_great_apostasy.pdf
[I advice no one to read his material. You have been warned! Also,
see our article: http://www.trusaint.com/richard-ibranyi-exposed/]
I only leave one
final parting comment by the words of Jesus Christ in John 3:5‐
“Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and
the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God”
Cheers to all!
Best regards,
Ivan
Jerome answers: Your whole email
is shameful, you in reality tells us to follow obedience or dictators
above justice, and that it would be justice
and righteousness and equivalent to salvation to
follow someone like Hitler unto evil, even though we know better!
Do you know what your problem is? That is that you are brainwashed,
and afraid to stand up to justice. You are thus
a follower of man (or God) and not a follower of justice
and love.
You believe in and adhere to the
damnation of billions and billions of angels, humans and souls, and
even children, as something good and salvific, whereas
the position to fight against this evil heresy, you judge as
heretical and damnable. You are pathetic, and you are blind.
You reject justice, and you do not love truly,
because you are only a follower of man (or of god) and you do not
fight for the salvation of those damned you love, but rather, or
so it seems, only if you are saved, you would let all the rest be and
remain damned, and you would not care. Do you know what that is
called? Selfishness. You are disgusting.
Do you know why I write so severely?
That is because I have explained myself to you so clearly, and yet
you reject everything and defend God even though he desires
and wishes the damnation and
ETERNAL torments of those whom he reject! Thus, you are a
heretic yourself for denying love, justice, and
truth and honesty, and you are a follower of man (or
God) and not of justice. You are no different from the
Germans that followed Hitler unto evil in World War 2, and no
different from all the other blind people who followed evil people
into evil, because they too where followers of men and false
obedience above true justice, [a justice]
which adhere to truth and not a man or a God, if this man or
god be unjust; and you continue to adhere to this truth even if this
man or God punishes you for it. That is truth, that is nobility, that
is honor, and this is what those good people did who resisted Hitler
and other evil people [and they where right], and why they are
rightly honored by the world, whereas everyone else, will have to
stand which shame.
In short, you say I am wrong and a
heretic (and unjust and evil according to you too?) because
I desire your mother and father's and everyone else's salvation,
and that God is right and good and just and faithful because
he desires and wills the damnation
and ETERNAL torments of billions
and billions of angels, humans and souls... Can you
not see how blind you are? You call goodness evil and evil goodness,
ONLY BECAUSE YOU FEAR TO STAND UP FOR JUSTICE, AND BECAUSE YOU
ARE A FOLLOWER OF MAN [or of this God who is a false good because
he is unjust] RATHER THAN A FOLLOWER OF JUSTICE [which is the
true God, since the true God claims to be inherently just].
Hence, you would rather “save” your own poor soul then stand up
to the truth and disobey an evil God, for the sake of the good of
all. You are thus a coward, and a fraud against the faith and love
you claim to follow.
Think of it, if your mother was damned,
you would just allow it according to the current evil faith you hold,
and you would not even dare to question God or do anything against it
[or about it]. That is the current evil faith you are holding, and is
also the reason for why you are blind.
No, instead of being such a coward like
you, I will always condemn God and fight for your and everyone's
else's salvation, and I will never accept the position that anyone
should be damned, but I will always fight against this heresy even if
God condemn and damns me for it, because god is wrong and I am right
on this point, as is obvious, and as will be seen in the day of
judgment, when you will stand with shame for being unjust, and
I with happiness, for having made the right choice of justice.
You will remember this conversation in
Heaven with shame, that is for sure.
IF you don't reply, I will have nothing
more to say to you, but I will post this conversation on my blog, so
that people will see the truth and what the so-called “Catholic”
faith is all about: SELFISHNESS. IF only I am saved, all is good...
[The Catholic faith is not selfish for those who live selfless lives,
but for others, it become selfish, since they don't care or do
anything about the salvation of the damned, which are in the
billions.]
Also, ask yourself this question, how
could you be happy in heaven seeing all the damned whom you love be
damned? You can't, unless you are inherently selfish.
An this will be my last word: Why is it
so hard to believe that Hell was just a test by God too see what men
would want to be truly just and who would not, and that this
is a great test in order to see who [what people] just don't want to
be like blind sheep just following blind [false] obedience
rather than [the truth of] justice?
Why can't you see or admit that justice
stands above even a God if this God be not truly just?
Wake up! Please, answer this question honesty: Does justice
stand above God or not? ANSWER!
Hi Ville!
I mentioned I am
not going to communicate with you no longer, however, circumstances
changed when you mentioned that if I do not reply that you will post
our conversation on your blog.
YES please do this
posting on your blog . I think this would be a great business idea,
as I am willing to do business with anyone, even with heretics like
you for the greater glory of God.
In the Economy of
Salvation, I totally and wholeheartedly accept you posting all this
on your blog, under the condition that you do not change or edit our
communications in any manner, shape or form. Leave it as is in its
natural form. Post everything both what you yourself had said and
what I have said too. It will help people seek the truth by
discerning what is a lie and what is truthful.
Let everyone who
reads all of this, see who the coward is, as Catholic warriors will
through their own experience know that cowards like to act tough
behind a computer screen or phone, but in real life people are so
much more timid when they have to face someone in person. [Jerome
comments: It's shameful how he talks about cowardice, yet become a
complete coward himself by completely refusing to answer any of my
questions or arguments on the point of justice and damnation... Know
this, dear reader, when someone refuses to answer even a single
question or argument that was asked, this is an indication that their
position is weak and false and they have nothing to stand upon –
just as with this person.]
Ville! I am not
interested in your bullshit heretical babble, either be a man and
post everything per my agreement or fly to Australia in the future
once travel is re-instated with a fully paid ticket by me, to face me
in person on the martial arts mat for just one lesson. Then we will
see who the coward is. Till then shut your lip and get on with the
show.
Go ahead make my
day!
Ivan
“What is the
good of words if they aren't important enough to quarrel over? Why do
we choose one word more than another if there isn't any difference
between them? If you called a woman a chimpanzee instead of an angel,
wouldn't there be a quarrel about a word? If you're not going to
argue about words, what are you going to argue about? Are you going
to convey your meaning to me by moving your ears? The Church and the
heresies always used to fight about words, because they are the only
thing worth fighting about.”
― G.K.
Chesterton
Jerome answers: Forgive me Ivan
if I offended you, but I do write hard in order to make you see and
to gain a proper response, but see you did not, and again you did not
address any of my questions, arguments or points at all but rather,
you only stated that I could post the conversation on my blog and you
also showed that you took offense at what I wrote (hence your
invitation to a physical fight with you). Since this is the case, why
not be a man and fight with me in words instead and actually take the
time to reply to my arguments for once, as my intention was to make
you do in the first place?
Do you know why you refuse to respond
properly? That is because you fear God or fear offending him, hence
you do not dare to question him, even if he would damn your own
mother, father or child. Is this the sad truth about you (that you
could let a dictator murder those you love and do nothing about it?).
This, at least, is the sad indication you gave in your email, since
you completely avoided all my arguments to the point of justice,
damnation, and of not allowing or allowing God to damn those we love,
and actually doing something or nothing about it.
At present you do nothing, and you also
avoided to answer my question concerning what you would do. That,
again, is because you fear being damned for being a true freethinker.
Hence you are not really a true freethinker, but you only are such
when it fits you and so long as you do not have to fear being
“damned” or “condemned” for endorsing this approach. If you
had any courage or sense of justice, as I explained, you would answer
my question and even risk being damned if honesty and justice
condemns God over the points I took up and excuse us (the so called
damned), but so far, you have not been just or even
honest at all because you completely refused to answer or even
address any of my arguments at all, and all you have done is to
defend God like someone would defend Hitler even though God
positively damns and wills the damnation of everyone we love (whoever
they are that are damned).
Thus, you do not truly care about true
justice, and provided you and yours are saved, or even if they are
not, but provided you are saved, all is fine with you? Is this your
sad belief and faith? And what if you are damned? However, do not
worry, I will never let you or anyone else be damned, but I will
always fight for all eternity for everyone's salvation because I do
know and see the truth that damnation
is evil, and that God is evil for damning us rather than forgiving
and curing us, as easily could be done in some form of prison in the
next life – so God have no excuse in the day of judgment
for the evil he did and thought about with this and I will condemn
him for it and do all in my power to save all the damned, if there
are any. (You see the difference in our faith? Mine is good and
endorse goodness, yours is evil and endorse evil.) And in the day of
judgment, God I will condemn and deprive of his rule because I know
something you refuse to see, that damnation is evil and that God is
unjust for damning us. Heck, you even claim I will be damned
and burn in Hell for the simple fact of questioning him on eternal
damnation; and because I want to save your mother and father and
everyone else from Hell, you call me damned and a heretic!
Can't you see how sad your view of
justice, love and faith is? God wants to damn us, yet he is good,
faithful and just according to you? And I who want to save them from
damnation, is declared damned and a heretic according to you. That is
the kind of blindness and dishonesty we are talking about here, (good
is bad and bad is good) and is also the reason for my harsh words in
the previous emails, because when it comes to this, most Catholics or
Christians are completely dishonest, such as you have been, and they
refuse to see or even answer questions, just like you did, and
whatever one says to them they simply refuse to listen, just as you
did, and whatever one says to them God will always be defended by
them even if he positively wills and allows and permits the damnation
of your own child, mother, father, brother or sister, and what is
worse, the person who desires to save them or condemns God for this
and fights him on this points – rather then praise him or deem him
good [or agreeing with him], are condemned as evil, heretical and
damned by blind people like you.
In reality, what you do is nothing less
than the equivalent of defending someone like Hitler, and instead of
condemning Hitler or God as you should be doing (or at least,
acknowledge that Hell is evil), you condemn the person who wants to
save us as evil, as a heretic and as damned, for the mere “crime”
of having condemned and fought against Hitler (or God)!
Think of the stupidness of your
position once again: Because I desire that your mother and father
be saved even if God damned them, you call me evil, a
heretic and damned; and
God who damns them you defend
even though he positively wills
and permits
the ETERNAL
TORMENT
of those we love in the worst
torments possible for all eternity (ETERNITY!)...
Hence your position has nothing
to do with justice at all, but all your position entails is slaving after one man or one God whatever he teaches or does, and
this is not honest, nor is it truth, nor
is it justice, but in reality it is cowardice, and
injustice, and against love. What a dark and
selfish faith you have!
In short, you defend the worst
crime possible: the eternal
torment and murder of billions of human beings and angels that all
could love IF
ONLY GIVEN THE CHANCE, and you do not even dare
to be a true freethinker in this regard and think of something
better. Heck, you do not even have the courage to think [or write] of
something better for them to me (not even anything have you mentioned
but a Hell with torments), but you only avoid everything and call me
damned. And that is all.
I have really nothing more to say to
you, and if you choose not to respond, so be it.
Yes, I will post this conversation on
my blog as it is, EXCEPT
FOR SMALL SPELLING AND GRAMMATICAL FIXES THAT WILL BE NECESSARY IN
ORDER TO MAKE MY POINTS MORE CLEAR, for I
expressed my self poorly in some parts due to not having proofread it
better. I hope you understand.
I will end this email now.
Sincerely,
Ville Hietanen (Jerome, of
against-all-heresies-and-errors.blogspot.com)
P.S.
I hope you have a good day and a
wonderful life, and then after death, we will meet each other in
Heaven.
You wild boar!
I already told you
I am not interested in your bull shit heretical babble, hence, just
get on with the show.
Recall one of my
responses which I will quote again;
“I am a simple
man, not a Catholic apologist. I do not have my own Catholic website
where I espouse my beliefs, hence, I am not looking at arguing any
point of view.
I am merely being
polite in answering your questions as a Catholic Freethinker, not as
an expert. For this reason, I will be recommending you to study what
others have said on various topics of interest as I do not have the
brilliant intellect of some individuals.”
Thus you are being
aggressive in demanding an argument with someone who has already told
you they are not interested.
Either get on with
the show of posting everything or start preparing for the martial
arts mat. There are no other options.
There is to be no
editing of anything when you post our conversations, not even
spelling mistakes nor grammar. That is what I agreed to. I want you
to post everything, including this email too. Everything!
I have nothing
further to say and I am not interested in you replying to me with
anything else except for the words: I agree to post everything as is
or I agree to a martial arts lesson.
Ivan
Final thoughts by me, Ville (or
Jerome), and this was not posted to him in the email, but posted
here:
Ivan, you don't have to be en expert or
a theologian to know or understand justice because justice
is the reason for why you know and understand that murder, rape and
theft is wrong, and so the pitiful excuse that you are no expert is
no excuse for ignoring my requests of receiving an answer, because
the questions was about justice, and not about some
theological matter not pertaining to justice. Hence, to respond to my
questions would have been just as obvious and clear as to respond to
the question: is it right or wrong to murder? But since you are not
honest, you do not want to see clearly, and you are not interested in
being just, hence that you do not answer the questions or
arguments pertaining to justice, because if you do answer
them, what would happen, you think? You would have agreed with me,
and hence have condemned God even if you would not have said so in
direct words like I do. But you don't want to do this and answer,
because you are not a follower of justice but a
follower of men and not of truth and justice, hence you adhere
to the evil position of respecting other men or God and obeying them
whatever they do or teach (even the most evil thing that has even
been, i.e., Hell, which is the mass murder – for all
eternity – of billions and billions of humans and angels!). Hence,
you are not a respecter of justice, but again a respecter of men and
their evil wills and that is your downfall in this email discussion.
Read part 2 of our discussion here:
ReplyDeletehttps://against-all-heresies-and-errors.blogspot.com/2020/04/q-is-god-absolute-moral-goodness-can-god-ever-be-wrong.html