Introibo, since you delete my comments
and do not show my responses to your direct comments to me, you have
forced me to abridge this comment to you as much as possible in the
hopes that you will approve of it and post it on your blog, with the hope that you
and your readers will visit the link and read the whole response for
yourself.
(The comment below is the full article.)
Introibo wrote quoting me:
“Answer: Neither is God any of these [omniscient, omnipotent,
omnibenevolent, and eternal] (except perhaps eternal and knowing the
future), for a God that damns others and torments them is not
perfect, is not kind, is not all powerful (such as in justice) but
rather the definition of imperfection.” Introibo responds:
Therefore, if God is evil, we should ALL be in Hell. If God is not
all-powerful, He could not create the universe and call it "good"
as He did in Genesis. Hence, Jerome's "God" is not the
Christian God.”
Jerome answers: To claim that
God must be good because he does not damn all of us is equivalent to
saying that Hitler was not evil because he did not murder all of us.
But that is wrong and Hitler was evil because he did evil and did
injustices to many even if not to all. The same with God. Hence your
argument is false and not to the point, because God is guilty of
injustices with damning many of us or even most
of us, as even he claims in his bible is the truth, i.e., that
most are damned: “Narrow is the gate and difficult is the
way which leads to life, and few there be who find it.”
(see Matthew 7:14; cf. Luke 13:23-24).
Also, just because God created the
universe does not equate to him being “good” or all “powerful”
by default as even you should know, since this is not proven from
anything except his own words, and when his actions so clearly
contradicts this notion of all powerfulness, one cannot but dismiss
this notion that he is all perfect or all powerful, because as I
said, a human or divine being cannot be all powerful or perfect
when he is imperfect in many ways, such as in justice.
And God is clearly imperfect in his justice when he damns billions of
children and grown up men and angels. Hence God's all “powerfulness”
or “goodness” does not extend to his justice and love because he
has almost none (at least for the damned), and therefore, the
argument that God is all powerful is false. That God created us in
itself does not prove anything. Actions and words prove something,
and we have seen what God's actions and deeds are: eternal damnation
for billions of humans, angels and souls, including the eternal
damnation and separation of damned children and separated unbaptized
children. These are God's fruits, and they are evil.
So God is imperfect as we all are even
if he is more powerful than us since he created us. But since we are
his children, who knows what we can become when we go to Heaven? What
Father or mother is greater then their own son or daughter? Are we
not all the same and can we not even surpass or become greater than
our ancestors in justice and righteousness and mighty deeds?
Certainly we can, and the same with the afterlife, because even if
God is who he is and nothing can be done about that, he could still
share his power with us, and make us stronger then himself through
justice.
But I also believe that it is true
justice and and true love who makes a human, angel or
soul or even a God truly just and powerful in the next life, and that
this justice and power can be created in oneself through being
righteous, and that just as God have power, so do we, and since God
was not perfectly just from eternity, his power is not all
powerful, but only powerful, and that when someone more just and
better than God comes, this person will become even more powerful
than God is from the moment his eternity starts. This only makes
sense since it is unjust that only one person can be the strongest if
this person also is unjust because if this person is unjust,
injustices could rule for all eternity and that would be unjust and
unreasonable, since in Heaven justice was supposed to prevail and no
more injustices occur.
Introibo wrote: “Hence,
Jerome's "God" is not the Christian God.”
Jerome answers: False. Whose God
between you and me is truly universal (Catholic) and Christian, if
not mine? My God is the Christian Catholic God, because
wherever or whoever this God is, he or she is truly just and does not
damn anyone. Hence this God still not yet known to many of us, is the
true and Christian God, but this false God who damns children, grown
ups and angels, is not. However, even though this God who is truly
just may be unknown to us, she is, in fact, not totally unknown to
those who believe in her. And many in the Vatican II have started to
find this God including me whom we call merciful and love and true
justice, since this God does not damn anyone, but rather, seeks to
forgive us.
Introibo wrote quoting me: “That
is why you cannot and will not answer the question as to what you
would do if you were God and if you would damn people if you had the
power of God, or if he lent you his power to do as you please with
the damned, what would you do? Would you not forgive them
and work on their betterment for all eternity then instead of damning
them I asked repeatedly? You never responded. Never!”
Introibo responded: “Here is my answer. I cannot know the
INFINITE MIND of GOD. "For My thoughts are not thy thoughts,
neither are thy ways My ways," declares the LORD. "As
the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than thy
ways and My thoughts than thy thoughts." (Isaiah 55: 8-9).
"How unsearchable His judgments, and His paths beyond tracing
out. Who hath known the mind of the Lord?" (Romans
11:13-14). If I were God, I
WOULD DO THE SAME AS HE BECAUSE HE KNOWS EVERYTHING, KNOWS WHAT IS
BEST, AND CAN CARRY IT OUT.
People are only lost THROUGH THEIR OWN FAULT. THEY ARE INCAPABLE OF
REHABILITATION AFTER DEATH. Since
this ordering of the world is the best, then I WOULD DO THE SAME,
since this is the result of an all GOOD, all Loving God. THERE
IS THE ANSWER FROM ME.”
Jerome answers: So you finally
answered the question, but your answer was not what I was expecting
to hear from you, and your answer in fact saddens me a lot, because
what you are saying essentially is this: If I were God I would also
damn children, grown ups, angels and souls to torments so unmerciful
that one would wish to have never existed, and where they will live
in a fire like fish in water, and where the torments will be so great
that one would die immediately upon even beholding them, and where
they will never feel the feelings of hope, love, friendship or
happiness ever again, and where they will be sawn asunder in two
while still alive etc., and eaten alive and mangled to dust all while
still living etc... All of this, and even worse, you would let
befall upon children, grown ups, angels and souls you say, only
because God did it! This must be the most stupid and evil arguments I have
ever heard from someone like you who is a lawyer and who is supposed to defend and protect people and do them good!, for what you say is no different from a German who would
have said: Hitler murdered Jews and children in concentration camps,
and because I believe and trust in him, I would do the same. I
believe his actions where the better for mankind, and therefore, I
would follow him.
Do you know what the problem with this
person and yourself is, Introibo. That is that both of you have lost
faith in hope and goodness, for if you had any hope, you would have
chosen to believe in and hope in goodness instead and that they (the damned) can
be converted and can become good, and not believe in murder and
eternal evil and hatred for our fellow brothers and sisters, or that
there is no hope for them. Even if God have lost hope in the damned,
this does not mean you would have to do the same. That is the
difference with you and me and God, for I will never loose hope, so
help me God and Mary, but God lost hope, and hence he have given up
on them, and so have you, you blind fool and murderer. But I will
never do this, so help me God and Mary!
But your answer was also unjust, you
murderer, because there was no justice in it, because you certainly
know better, and that you would do better for them than God does. But
if you would object that you do not know better, then I would say you
are lying, because you certainly know that we are not to treat others
such as our enemies evil, you murderer.
Introibo wrote: “People are
only lost THROUGH THEIR OWN FAULT. THEY ARE INCAPABLE OF
REHABILITATION AFTER DEATH.”
Jerome answers: How many time
must I answer this argument? I have repeatedly said that I do not
believe this is the case, because humans while living had love and
goodness in them, and also most of them are willing to be
rehabilitated on earth. Hence if humans while in a human body are
willing to do these things and also do love others, why would a
spirit never want to do this, as God claims? This sounds impossible
to me, and also unfair, because if spirits are so obstinate in
choosing evil, it is unfair to judge a human separated from his body,
for if a human have a body, there is always hope for him, since
humans do convert and become better all the time. But I also believe
spirits can be converted, however obstinate they be, because as I
have said, I believe in hope and will never loose faith in hope or in
others goodness and conversion, and therefore, I will always work on
that evil people may be converted. In heaven, I will not be lazy, but
I will always do everything I can, help me God and Mary, that souls,
humans, and spirits may be converted, and I will never loose hope
that this is possible, because when hope is lost, all is lost.
Introibo wrote quoting me: “But
being made in God's likeness means, rather, I would say, that we can
share in and take parts of God's glory and power. Hence, God could
actually make someone else more powerful then himself by giving his
power to him, and even if God could take it back, if God is just and
this person deserves this power more, this means God will not do it,
since God is undeserving of it.” Introibo responds: “If
you have exactly one million dollars, how can you give someone MORE
than a million dollars? His position is self-refuting. Further, He
denies the Christian God and even (approvingly) quotes Bergoglio:
“And I believe in God. Not in a catholic God; a catholic God does
not exist; God exists.”
Jerome answers: No, my position
is not self-refuting. As one example demonstrating this shows: How
could the government give you more money then one million dollar, if
it only had one million dollar? Answer: by printing more money!
Hence, God could create more power, and give more power, but if God
is just, he won't give this power to himself but to the person
deserving of it, hence the surplus power would be given to someone
else, and not to himself.
And yes, I agree with the Bergoglio
quote and my explanation of it: “And I believe in God. Not in
a catholic God; a catholic God does not exist; God exists.”
I wrote: “I believe Pope Francis point was [to say] that God
exists, but not a God that desires others evil or that is not truly
universal. That is why, in my belief, Francis made this distinction,
and I agree with him. However, I would say I believe in the “Catholic
God” (wherever [or whoever] he or she is), because I believe in
Universality, but I do not exactly believe in “God” or the
“Catholic God” strictly, because when God has such problems to be
truly Universal, then he cannot be a “Catholic God”, because
“Catholic” means “Universal”. And that is why the only God to
me is this God who is truly Universal.”
Introibo wrote quoting me:
“ALSO, IF GOD CHANGED POSITION ON HELL, SO WOULD YOU. SO THE
ARGUMENT THAT HELL IS “JUST” FALLS FLAT WITH THIS ARGUMENT
ALONE.” Introibo responds: God CANNOT change. Hebrews
13:8, "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and
forever." God is perfection. He IS JUSTICE. HE IS MERCY. HE
IS EVERYTHING GOOD AND KNOWS ALL. Therefore, He cannot "change
His mind" since He already KNOWS WHAT IS BEST FROM ALL ETERNITY.
Theft is unjust, God is just. Therefore, theft is wrong. The Ten
Commandments aren't right because God commanded them, rather they
were commanded BECAUSE THEY ARE GOOD AND REFLECT THE ALL JUST GOD.”
Jerome answers: You did not
exactly answer my argument, and the argument continued thus: “God
could not change position on murder or rape, for example, for that
would be evil and even you would condemn God if he did that, but with
Hell, it is different, for Hell is not a good or just doctrine in
itself, but is actually evil; and that is why if
God changed position on Hell and this was proven to you, you
too would immediately change position – you blind,
unjust and evil person!” So the argument stands, my friend, for
if God did change position and this was proven to you, so would you
change position, hence that this is a good argument and proves the
point, i.e., that Hell is evil! (If you don't agree, why don't you
say that you would change or not change position if God changed
position? Then at least you make your position clear to us, instead
of just hiding behind the evil argument that “God does not
change”.) Or are you going to argue with God about Hell, think you
-- if God now desires to forgive the damned -- and say in his face
that they must not be forgiven, and always tormented, and that your
will is this? I hope you would not do this, because if you did, such
a an evil deed would be incredible dark and evil and heretical.
Concerning the argument that “God
change not”, this is what I wrote in response in my fourth
response to you: “But God can change, and whether or not you
believe he will, is another question, but if you don't believe in
this, then tragically you must believe in an unjust God that also is
obstinate with being unjust. So which position is better? Mine of
course, i.e., that God was wrong, admitted to being wrong, and
changed!”
(https://against-all-heresies-and-errors.blogspot.com/2020/04/q-jerome-your-argumentation-is-so-pathetic-fourth-response-to-introibo.html)
With your position God would not only
be obstinate in evil, but also unrepentant and unwilling, and this is
evil. But with my position which is the true position since it is
humility and entails justice, even a God can be wrong and hence can
change for the better, for whenever one has found out that one was
wrong on something, it is only natural to change if one is but just
and honest. And if you are but humble, you can understand that this
applies with God as much as with man, for if God ever was wrong on
something (which he in fact is with his Hell) then it is only natural
for him to change. To not change when one is wrong would actually be
evil, and if God did not change, this would only mean that he was
even more imperfect and evil, for being obstinate in evil is the
worst crime there is since then there is not even repentance or
anything of the kind. Obstinacy in evil is darkness, and God is
light, right? Hence, God must change, and already have.
Introibo wrote quoting me: “You
also ask how God is evil yet there is no Hell? Do you want to know
why? That is because, if you want to believe this, God removed Hell
and Limbo because I demanded and commanded him to do so, since I
battled with God every day and still do for the salvation of all the
angels, humans and souls, and all other living and non-living
creatures, such as animals and even stones and trees! Hence, God told
me finally that there will be no Hell, and that I was right in my
thinking, and he also said that this was just as test in order to see
who among his children wanted to be truly just, and who would not
want this. But since I cannot be certain of that this is the case,
and since I talk with many spirits, I have also heard this: that it
was not a test, and that God was wrong in creating Hell, but that he
did not change his position, apparently, until I condemned him and
debated with him so much so that he was forced to change position,
because when my justice and my thoughts was so good and noble, how
could God resist me? He could not, hence he changed and humbled
himself.” Introibo responds: “Jerome is therefore
mentally disturbed or in communication with demons. That's where his
un-Christian, illogical and evil
doctrines come. I will not bother with this man who needs
psychological help, an exorcism perhaps, or maybe both.”
Jerome answers: I find it tragic
that you called me and my position evil and illogical, because doing
good to others certainly is not an evil position or illogical you
blind person, and I do desire them good, as you know, and I do wish
and fight for that they should be saved and not damned! But to the
contrary, it is understandable if I call you and your God and your
position evil and illogical, since your position actually does
eternal harm and evil for our beloved damned brothers and sisters
that all can love if only given the chance – since you advocate
and defend unmercifully tormenting them in ETERNAL
torments worse than any Concentration Camp – you blind,
hypocritical fool!
Also, I don't know if I talk to demons,
but I do talk with God, the Virgin Mary, St. Gemma, St. Theresa, St.
Rosa of Lima and many others, and provided I desire to talk with
someone, I will hear their voice and I can talk with them, but if I
talk to demons, I don't know, but even if I do, I would consider them
my friends.
Introibo wrote: “After
publishing all six of his comments, I saw all Jerome did was
reproduce his insanity from his blog and post it here. The comments
are not for reproducing other blog posts. Go to his website and read
it in full if you want.”
Jerome answers: What do you
expect me to do, write two different articles just in order to please
you? If you had any honesty and if this was according to your rules,
you would allow my posts to stay, but since it does not seem you are
so inclined to debate with me, you delete my posts; and you did not
even put up a link to my response of your comments to me so the
readers will have no way of knowing my answers to you, unless they
read all my articles or even visits my blog (which is not even
certain).
Here is a link to all my previous
responses to Introibo:
First response:
Second response:
Third response:
Fourth response:
Fifth response:
Sixth response:
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